How wide should the V between the wings of a dress shoe be?

[brianzhao]

Hi guys! I'm new to this forum and relatively new to the world of classic menswear. For my internship, I decided to upgrade my dress shoes and get a pair of Allen Edmonds. I've always bought shoes with closed lacing systems. Previously my dress shoes have always had no gap between the wings. Like this:

However, after getting sized at Allen Edmonds, my new dress shoes have a pretty wide V-shape between the wings. Like this:

I just wanted to know if this is normal / how wide this gap should be. Thanks in advance!

 

[SeaDweller]

Hi guys! I'm new to this forum and relatively new to the world of classic menswear. For my internship, I decided to upgrade my dress shoes and get a pair of Allen Edmonds. I've always bought shoes with closed lacing systems. Previously my dress shoes have always had no gap between the wings. Like this:

View attachment 995147

However, after getting sized at Allen Edmonds, my new dress shoes have a pretty wide V-shape between the wings. Like this:

View attachment 995148

I just wanted to know if this is normal / how wide this gap should be. Thanks in advance!

It'll close up as they break in. For me, in the morning, I have a similar gap, slightly less up top, but similar when brand new. During the midday I have to tighten them up and they're almost as closed as your first pic, I like to have a little V, but not a huge one. Yours looks like it'll close.

 

[brianzhao]

It'll close up as they break in. For me, in the morning, I have a similar gap, slightly less up top, but similar when brand new. During the midday I have to tighten them up and they're almost as closed as your first pic, I like to have a little V, but not a huge one. Yours looks like it'll close.

Thank you for letting me know! This is my first time getting a nicer shoe, so I'm not sure how it all works yet. Glad I could learn something new.

 

[GBR]

Ideally you would have bought them in a bricks and mortar shop and not online as you are a self-confessed novice. Interns do not learn by post.

I hope that the gap will reduce bit I would avoid shoes made from that last next time.

 

[patekman]

'But I would avoid shoes made from that last next time'
May I ask why?
I am interested to know?

 

[brianzhao]

Ideally you would have bought them in a bricks and mortar shop and not online as you are a self-confessed novice. Interns do not learn by post.

I hope that the gap will reduce bit I would avoid shoes made from that last next time.

I did get fitted at an Allen Edmonds store. However, they didn't have my size, so I ordered them online. I think the 65 last may have a lower cone than ideal for me. But the 201 last which is used on the Independence Collection is a little outside of my budget.

 

[unsuitable]

Congratulations on your internship - bless you for attempting to become a tax payer!

Each last (a foot-shapped form that shoes are created around) has a different shape. The 5-series from AE fits my feet best but I have trouble with some other lasts. Different lasts in the same size may fit you much better/worse. The downside to brick-n-mortar fitting is that the salesperson may be trying to make a sale (gasp!) by selling you whatever they have in-hand and not what is best for you. I have found on-site sales clerks to vary widely in their knowledge and honesty.

By suggesting that you avoid that last henceforth I think GBR is suggesting that the gap is too pronounced and may not close up in time (my opinion of someone Else's comments should be taken for what it is worth: nearly nothing).

The larger picture is that you are at the beginning of a journey - finding out what you like and what fits. I suggest you journal this adventure in Excel (I started in VisiCalc) with a list of makers, lasts, sizes and notes about the fit of each. This is one of the few files I keep in a free cloud of any kind.

I hope your internship is great and I really do commend you for getting a job - its not a given anymore.

 

[SeaDweller]

'But I would avoid shoes made from that last next time'
May I ask why?
I am interested to know?

I think it’s because that last doesn’t work for so many people and it’s very inconsistent, even in the same shoe of same color/different color.

Personally this last works for me, really well too. I have some shoes where there is essentially the perfect V, gap amount. Others I have to adjust midday and it looks great.

Oh yeah, OP, I didn’t want to imply that I’d think it’ll close up completely, But as it breaks in, I think it’ll reduce/close up some more.

 

[brianzhao]

I think it’s because that last doesn’t work for so many people and it’s very inconsistent, even in the same shoe of same color/different color.

Personally this last works for me, really well too. I have some shoes where there is essentially the perfect V, gap amount. Others I have to adjust midday and it looks great.

Oh yeah, OP, I didn’t want to imply that I’d think it’ll close up completely, But as it breaks in, I think it’ll reduce/close up some more.

Of course! Thank you very much for the advice. I hope they do close up a little more because I just wore them out today, and there's no going back now haha.

 

[SeaDweller]

Of course! Thank you very much for the advice. I hope they do close up a little more because I just wore them out today, and there's no going back now haha.

I'll take a pic when I'm leaving and then show you midday

 

[ter1413]

To add, I would suggest wearing pants during your internship.

 

[Caustic Man]

To add, I would suggest wearing pants during your internship.

Personal preference.

 

[SeaDweller]

Man I must have been buzzed when I first replied, saying my mid day adjustment was like your first pic.
First thing in the morning:

Right before a re-tie

Now:

I prefer a slight v gap anyway, as you can see, my mid day re tie isn't nearly as closed as your first pic, but it's become like this after they break in.

 

[michaelvl]

Once their is no gap, the shoes cannot be tightened any further, hence it is good to have a (slight) gap. As the shoes break in, the leather will stretch and the gap shall get smaller. When I purchase a pair of Oxfords, I see to it that the gap is at least 1.2 CM as I know from experience my shoes shall stretch especially across the vamp, causing the gap to reduce by around 0.8 CM.

 

[coldsalmon]

I did get fitted at an Allen Edmonds store. However, they didn't have my size, so I ordered them online. I think the 65 last may have a lower cone than ideal for me. But the 201 last which is used on the Independence Collection is a little outside of my budget.

Jefferson 2.0 is on sale!

Also, an AE salesman told me to try cross lacing instead of straight bar lacing if I was having trouble getting my shoes tight enough. It worked extremely well! I think the cross lacing might take up more room between the eyelets and the tongue, thus acting like a tongue pad. Whatever the reason, my shoes now fit better. I would probably still stick to bar lacing on black tap-toes though, since it is more formal.

Here are some photos of my AE oxfords. I have kind of flat feet (low instep), so the shoes usually close all the way, or almost all the way. Oddly, the Jefferson 2.0 is the only one that doesn't close completely. Perhaps they will stretch a bit. There is usually supposed to be a bit of a gap, so I guess I am bucking the SF orthodoxy thanks to my annoying feet. Check the AE appreciation thread, and "rock your socks," for thousands more photos of oxfords.