How we remember Shoa and other atrocities

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by romafan, Oct 4, 2012.

  1. romafan

    romafan Senior member

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    testing, one, two, three. no go stitchy. did you see the male tatto thread? (no :roma: available) I posted an article about holocaust survivors' grandkids who are getting tattoed w/ their grandparents cc#s...
     


  2. in stitches

    in stitches Kung Joo Moderator

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    then i do not know. sorry. :( someone posted the same issue in MC today as well. maybe software, idrk.


    i have not seen the tattoo thread. please to link for me. would be interesting to see.

    there is a MC WAYWRN poster who has a neck tattoo. i find that interesting. he should read this thread you speak of. :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2012


  3. romafan

    romafan Senior member

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    Last edited: Oct 4, 2012


  4. MrG

    MrG Senior member

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    I wasn't the one who deleted the tattoo thread, but I did see it before the deletion. The OP in that thread was spam, and it had a bunch of links embedded in the post. If I had to guess, I'd say that's probably why it vanished.

    FWIW, I also read the article you posted, and it was very interesting. It's a shame the post was made in a thread that (apparently) was spaminated.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2012


  5. lasbar

    lasbar Senior member

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    It is actually a meaningful tattoo..
     


  6. romafan

    romafan Senior member

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    yes, didn't mean to imply meaninglessness
     


  7. in stitches

    in stitches Kung Joo Moderator

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    i dont want to reply here, and have a another chinese food like explosion in transmod, but its a very interesting topic. im hesitant to even talk about that stuff in a public setting, you never know what it may incite. but if you do restart the thread, lmk, or we can have a PM convo if you like.
     


  8. dopey

    dopey Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    There was a discussion about that article (and also a related film, I think) at lunch over the recent Sukkot holiday. Few had read the article, though more had a opinions. The opinions were all negative, though more out poignancy than real criticism.
     


  9. in stitches

    in stitches Kung Joo Moderator

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    imo, the most important opinion, is that of actual holocaust survivors. it is their feelings and emotions that matter most in this instance to me. what anyone else may say or feel on the topic, i think, is ancillary.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2012


  10. lasbar

    lasbar Senior member

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    The survivors went through such horrific experiences I do understand they have a different view/angle to shoah issues than we have...

    I'm a big fan of the History channels and my eyes are always watery when I see a documentary about the final solution ...

    Watching in black and white pictures women carrying infants to the chambers just never fail to make weep..
     


  11. dopey

    dopey Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    The ones whose numbers being used are dead so their opinions are likely unknown.
    Why one survivor's opinion about a subject determines how someone should memorialize a different survivor with whom that person has a personal relationship and who may have had a different opinion doesn't seem that relevant to me.

    Obviously, if I were a grandkid, I wouldn't want my memorial to my grandmother to piss off my neighbor, but neither would I think it fair for some lady I don't know to tell me how to relate to my own relatives.

    Each survivor is a person and each one, now living or dead, had his or her own opinions. They aren't a monolithic group that sets "survivor policy" nor could they be.
     


  12. lasbar

    lasbar Senior member

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    It is a very personal and sensitive issue..

    Some survivors might have maybe been proud of that symbolic act of remembrance but I'm sure others will be horrified and saddened by such tattoos..

    Collective memory is always a dangerous exercise ...

    I call it the graveyard of personal feelings because so much hurt is always difficult to express collectivily or individually..
     


  13. in stitches

    in stitches Kung Joo Moderator

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    lasbar, i am "glad" you take the memory of the holocaust with the seriousness and emotion it deserves.


    you make a solid point. i was unclear in my post. certainly i would not expect every survivor to have the same opinion, nor would i expect one survivor to have the right to tell someone else how to memorialize another relative survivor who may or may not share the same feelings as they do.

    i just meant that for me personally, the opinion of the survivor that the tatto pertains to, that persons opinion (or their relatives opinion) is far greater than what someone else has to say on the matter. and we can all state our opinions, but any opinion that does not practically relate to an actual survivor, is kind of moot to me. pages and pages can be written, but in the end, all that matters is the feelings of each person that is being memorialized, and how their relatives chose to process that and hold onto their memories.

    as to the fact that a tatto is a torah prohibition, and discussion about weather or not transgressing such a prohibition with the intent to memorialize someone who was jewish, and who may or may not be put off by being memorialized in way that they discourage, well, thats an entirely different discussion, and also none of my business. to each their own.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2012


  14. lasbar

    lasbar Senior member

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    Every genocide is a tragedy and we need to continue to remind younger generations of them because they're still happening today...

    Every survivor dying is a piece of history disappearing with them and too many people are too keen to wait long enough to be allowed to rewrite it...
     


  15. romafan

    romafan Senior member

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    this is what struck me - w/in my lifetime this is going form 'lived' memory to 'historical' memory. it is just unbelievable how the passage of time can erase so monumental an evil. for kids in israel think of the holocaust as another story or chapter in the history of their people ("like the Exodus from Egypt"!) just blows my mind....
     


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