1. And... we're back. You'll notice that all of your images are back as well, as are our beloved emoticons, including the infamous :foo: We have also worked with our server folks and developers to fix the issues that were slowing down the site.

    There is still work to be done - the images in existing sigs are not yet linked, for example, and we are working on a way to get the images to load faster - which will improve the performance of the site, especially on the pages with a ton of images, and we will continue to work diligently on that and keep you updated.

    Cheers,

    Fok on behalf of the entire Styleforum team
    Dismiss Notice

How to tell ply's

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by demeis, Mar 22, 2005.

  1. cutter

    cutter Member

    Messages:
    7
    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2005
    Ok, so I guess you just mispoke earlier when you claimed that 4-ply means the same as 2x2. Don't sweat it; it happens to the best of us.

    I did manage to find a sample of H&S cloth that they call 4-ply, and I untwisted both warp and weft, and it is 2x2. There are no 4-ply yarns. But it's not the same as the Airesco, and I can't find samples of that one. So you may be right about that one. If I am wrong, than I apologize to H&S.
     
  2. Alexander Kabbaz

    Alexander Kabbaz Senior member

    Messages:
    1,272
    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2003
    Location:
    East Hampton & New York
    Rather than admit to a simple error, let us instead resort to the defense of sarcastic imbecility. What was that word, the rationale for which was challenged yesterday? Oh, yes: Lunatic.
     
  3. Manton

    Manton Senior member Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    41,568
    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2002
    Location:
    In Hiding
    Oh, what the hell.  I have seen worsted "Supers" with cashmere in which some or all of the cashmere yarns are 3- or 4-ply.  But at most, the cashmere makes up 10% of the cloth, and that's true only of cloth at the upper, upper end.  Usually, it's more like 1% or 2%.  A true 4x4, even in 100% wool, must cost a bloody fortune, like that crazy $#.+ Scabal makes with the diamond dust.  Or the 24k gold stripe.  Very ... classy ... yeah, that's the word ...
     
  4. MCA

    MCA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    77
    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2004
    Hi cutter,

    Do you happen to be a shirtmaker? You seem quite knowledgeable in the area.

    Personally I find all  those yarn numbers misleading by themselves. They only tell a very small part of the story. I have seen 70x1/120x2 shirtings that blow away many 160 2x2s and beyond. The hand,  the "spring-back" quality, depth of color, weave, the finishing, and how the fabrics wear (not only how they look like when new), are the ultimate indicators of quality.  I wouldn't obsess so much over the numbers. Cheers.
     
  5. Alexander Kabbaz

    Alexander Kabbaz Senior member

    Messages:
    1,272
    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2003
    Location:
    East Hampton & New York
    Although I wouldn't go so far as to say that a 70/1 weft thread is going to blow away much of anything, your conceptual thesis is correct. Thicker yarns are quite often used in the texturing process. 80/2 is commonly used as one component of very fine oxfords, for example. However, when you cite a single-ply yarn as "blowing away" a two-ply yarn, your premise is false. Although the single ply yarn may have the two qualities you cite (resiliance and depth of color) ... and may even be serviceable for quite a number of washings ... it will certainly begin to pill at some point in its life ... and that point will be way short of the 2-ply yarn's life. That extreme detriment can be overcome only by plying the yarns. From what I read of this Cutter/Lisapop exchange, their disagreement has nothing to do with yarn numbers, but has to do with the definition of plying. Toward this end and in all of the textile trades, plying is the process of twisting multiple yarns together. What the marketing division does with this simple fact seems to vary all over the lot, and I believe that this was the correction Cutter was making to Lisapop and Holland & Sherry. By tradition, using two, two-ply yarns does not yield a cloth meant to be called "4-ply" even though there are technically 4 plies if you sum the number of individual yarns. There are also some very, very expensive 4 ply yarns which are proplerly called 4-ply. What should one call the resultant fabric made from a weft and warp of these 4-ply yarns? Eight ply? I think not.
     
  6. lisapop

    lisapop Senior member

    Messages:
    534
    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2005
    Who gives a "shirt", when all is said and done.
    Grayson
     
  7. MCA

    MCA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    77
    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2004
    Hi Alex,

    I mistakenly used the term "yarn numbers" to include the correct technical term plus the number of plies. My error was due perhaps to my not caring too much about any such numbers, and rather focus on the overall picture.

    I am no textile engineer but in my limited experience the resistance to pilling depends directly on the length and intrinsic quality of the individual fibers and on how the individual yarns are spinned, twisted, and treated, and not exclusively on the ply number. Usually makers who use 2 plies are more likely to use higher-grade, long-staple fibers, and more careful weaving practices. Hence the higher  pilling resistance. Again, maybe we are  focusing too much on the hard numbers. I'd choose my "humble" 70/1 above a good deal of 2x2s and 180s, but that is just my personal opinion, never "false" and quite honest, for what it's worth. Regards.
     

Share This Page

Styleforum is proudly sponsored by