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How to stop overdressing

Lord Flashheart

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One last point to make as a bit of shift in tone: I think the type of suit or sportcoat you wear to work can move the needle on this.

I have suits that are solid color but also have several that are more splashy and unconventional. I think if you're consistently wearing solids that are blues, browns and grays you might come across as being in the wrong industry rather than showing a preference of style. I think if you rock bolder styles alongside traditional, like some glenplaids, windowpanes, or houndstooths with a bit of a pop of color it comes across as more of an expression of yourself which changes the narrative.

Summed that up perfectly.

The bit about NOT potentially hiring you for wearing a suit is somewhat eye raising - were these managers ahem 'socially maladjusted' ... unless you are going for a trades related position you should ALWAYS wear a suit ... otherwise you are basically showing disrespect to the interviewer/panel/firm from your slovenly attitude.
From the interviewer side of the equation - not at least wearing shirt/tie/shoes you were already in the unlikely pile in my view.
At an interview you are showing at the basic level the ability to impress - I'm sure you can borrow the attire if you don't own it. Not hard.
 

Lord Flashheart

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while some amounts to snide remarks of "he's just trying to make us look bad" or "looks like someone takes their job a little to seriously", etc. T
"No mate - you look bad without any help from me" - said with a smile .... then an 'I'm only joking son" .. pause ... "or am I ?" wink and walk off.

Nick Cave slightly deranged, intense face, and slightly in their face so they take a step back
" I take EVERYTHING seriously son and so should you" .... pause Goodfella's Pesci style ...."had you there" ... smile, wink and walk off.

My own (true) responses "well I used to be a right scruffy c*nt .. (sadly true as well) so I'm trying to re-addresses the balance" ...

"well IT don't have the best rep for sartorial elegance, so I'm on a personal mission to re-address the balance"
 
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Thin White Duke

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Some good comments just there ^^
On another message board I participate in which is broad based but not sartorial, when the subject of attire comes up - as it does frequently - there are often responsss that just make me really sad. I often say I feel like I’m fighting a rearguard action against the march to schlubbery but when I read those posts I feel like the war is lost.

Most people who respond seem overwhelmingly more than happy to embrace ‘comfort’ (sweatpants) over any sign of style. As an aside I always say if wearing a suit and tie is ‘uncomfortable’ then you’re doing it wrong. To these fellas any song that you paid attention to your appearance beyond the most basic level is a sign of foppishness and a waste of time, money and energy.

One lad was going to a function at a swanky restaurant and said he’d be wearing an open necked shirt “dressy jeans” and Chelsea boots. The mention of chinos inevitably elicits derision. If I’d suggested a blazer / sport jacket and wool strides they’d still be laughing at me today.

I said when I go back to England I’ll inevitably pack a suit just in case there’s an impromptu function (wedding, funeral etc). The response from just about everyone was that they would just buy a cheap suit from Asda and throw it away once used.

There was a time when even the most crusty blue collar worker had a suit for ‘Sunday best’. I keep trying to proselytise that no matter how informal your job or daily situation, every man should own at least one good suit. Even if he works down a mind or on an oil rig - when there’s a wedding or a baptism you can get suited up and let everyone know that even if you have a dirty job you know how to scrub up when the occasion demands. Those days are gone.

I work more and more from home so have less and less reason to suit up for work but will continue to do so. When I retire there’s gonna be a lot of my much loved threads going up on eBay but I can’t see there being much demand for it by then. It’s all so very sad.
 

Andy57

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Silicon Valley is quite tribal in its rejection of ties.

@Andy57 seems to have ignored peer pressure more than most.
Peer pressure? I ran out of ***** to give a long time ago.

@Andy57 is a legend. @Skeem1 his Instagram handle is styleafter50.
That's very kind.

I work for a company that has no dress code and I take full advantage of that. Nobody (as far as I know) gives a damn about what I wear to the office.
 

TheIronDandy

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I’m curious to know if any igents work in tech and still dress semi/formally. I’d love to see that! I know a lot of lawyers and finance guys here just wear suits and look great but tech is different haha.
I don't know what an igent is (a gent made by Apple?), but I'm sure I'm not one. But I do work in tech and I wear tailoring whenever I go to the office. Ranging from tailored trousers and a tweed jacket (a colleague called it "a very British vibe") to rather bold suits (chalk stripe). I don't think anyone has seen me in denim or sneakers.

I'm not an engineer myself, but I mostly work with techies of various kinds. I've yet to receive any negative comments. I receive several positive ones, including the chairman of the board of my company asking what I think about dress codes. I have found out that people tend to assume I'm "old money", which I still laugh about. I was raised in the lowest income area of Sweden (which isn't exactly South Central LA, but still...)

If people ask me about my choice of clothes, I just tell them "I like suits". If they're actually curious, I'll also share the story of the difficulty of finding clothes that fit off the rack, and the difference in comfort between slim jeans (terrible) and bespoke trousers in soft flannel (amazing). "Some people buy season tickets, some people have a Tesla, I have a nice wardrobe."

It helps to start at day 1: if you show up wearing tailoring and just keep doing it, people get accustomed to it pretty quickly. If you start doing it after a while, people seem to respond worse. I've never received any criticism at work, but one of my best friends from university shakes his head every time he sees me and says I've sold out (I quite wish it was a case of SELLING out - I'm doing the buying here!) If people get to know you as the "suit guy" from the start, it's much easier to get away with it. Wearing tailoring might get you looked at a bit differently, but I don't think that has to be a bad thing.

PS. I find it somewhat strange that so many people in the US, which I've always thought of as the most individualistic, achievement oriented culture around, struggle with dressing differently. It sounds like Sweden in the 80s, when we thought communism and collectivism was still pretty neat, and any attempt to rise above the grey masses was looked down upon.
 

Thin White Duke

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It helps to start at day 1: if you show up wearing tailoring and just keep doing it, people get accustomed to it pretty quickly. If you start doing it after a while, people seem to respond worse. I've never received any criticism at work, but one of my best friends from university shakes his head every time he sees me and says I've sold out (I quite wish it was a case of SELLING out - I'm doing the buying here!) If people get to know you as the "suit guy" from the start, it's much easier to get away with it. Wearing tailoring might get you looked at a bit differently, but I don't think that has to be a bad thing.
Good post matey, especially that bit^^
I’ll add that while getting an upgrade on a flight just because you’re wearing a suit is a bit of a myth (they go through several layers of ‘elite’ status passengers before they can make that decision), I couldn’t begin to re-tell the countless stories of discretion, comp … however you’d describe ‘enhanced customer service’ I’ve received just by being well dressed. Also, minor examples like the lady I always see at the airport snack shop or the fellas loading your rollaboard on the apron when flying in a small plane always throwing compliments your way is a nice way to start the day!

I just got an email from Blazer which included a link to a Guardian article about actors in their sixties embracing ‘new masculinity’ - Daniel Craig with floppy hair wearing a psychedelic knitted jumper, ridiculous baggy strides and untied Timberland style boots. “Ooh it’s so liberating not having to wear boring stuffy suits” - of course they all look shite and one hopes they will look back on this phase wondering “what was I thinking?”

I can never be sure if these people wake up one morning and make a conscious decision to look like a slob or if they’re being paid a lot of money by various brands to do so. All I know is that a large part of the reason why I got back into CM style around 2010 when I returned to a white collar job was that I didn’t want to have to overhaul my wardrobe every few months at the whim of some arsehole in Paris or Rome, and I didn’t want to look back and cringe at photographs of me when I’d made crap choices regarding my appearance. 14 years later and no regrets. I wonder if Craig will say the same in a few months?
 

ppk

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I'm not an engineer myself, but I mostly work with techies of various kinds. I've yet to receive any negative comments. I receive several positive ones, [...]
Same experience I've had. I am a consultant - in case you're wondering, I'm not with McKinsey et al. I'm an individual and have my own company. I suspect I get more leeway than employees.
"Some people buy season tickets, some people have a Tesla, I have a nice wardrobe."
This is a great line. I say something similar but this is more eloquent.

It helps to start at day 1: if you show up wearing tailoring and just keep doing it, people get accustomed to it pretty quickly.
This is very true. Setting expectations early is always easier.

PS. I find it somewhat strange that so many people in the US, which I've always thought of as the most individualistic, achievement oriented culture around, struggle with dressing differently.
Another truth. People want to be comfortable and avoid any friction even if it means compromising their autonomy. It's just easier. For some of us our self-expression is more important.

Amazing post @TheIronDandy. Thanks.
 

TheIronDandy

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Good post matey, especially that bit^^
I’ll add that while getting an upgrade on a flight just because you’re wearing a suit is a bit of a myth (they go through several layers of ‘elite’ status passengers before they can make that decision), I couldn’t begin to re-tell the countless stories of discretion, comp … however you’d describe ‘enhanced customer service’ I’ve received just by being well dressed. Also, minor examples like the lady I always see at the airport snack shop or the fellas loading your rollaboard on the apron when flying in a small plane always throwing compliments your way is a nice way to start the day!

I just got an email from Blazer which included a link to a Guardian article about actors in their sixties embracing ‘new masculinity’ - Daniel Craig with floppy hair wearing a psychedelic knitted jumper, ridiculous baggy strides and untied Timberland style boots. “Ooh it’s so liberating not having to wear boring stuffy suits” - of course they all look shite and one hopes they will look back on this phase wondering “what was I thinking?”

I can never be sure if these people wake up one morning and make a conscious decision to look like a slob or if they’re being paid a lot of money by various brands to do so. All I know is that a large part of the reason why I got back into CM style around 2010 when I returned to a white collar job was that I didn’t want to have to overhaul my wardrobe every few months at the whim of some arsehole in Paris or Rome, and I didn’t want to look back and cringe at photographs of me when I’d made crap choices regarding my appearance. 14 years later and no regrets. I wonder if Craig will say the same in a few months?

I've had a lot of thoughts about why some people are so happy to get out of the "boring" suit, and I have a couple of thoughts:

1. To a lot of people, the suit was forced upon them. "Nice" clothes in general is something many young men are taught to fear: you are forced to wear them for events that you are forced to go to, where you're suppose to sit still and be good. You may have to eat food you really hate, and pretend to be happy to see people you can't even remember. You might get your cheeks pinched by your aunt.

At work, it doesn't get any better. To most people, the suit was something you were forced to wear 5 days a week. Just like many #menswear guys chafe at the idea of having to wear slim fit, poly blend polos to fit in, many men chafed at having to put on a suit they hated.

2. Suits are extremely uncomfortable if they don't fit, and most people don't know the first thing about fit. This goes for people selling clothes as well as people buying them.

In our little bubble of guides and googling, it's sometimes hard to forget how much of this knowledge of cut, fit and make is esoteric knowledge. Just like not everyone knows how to compile their own UNIX kernel (disclaimer: I have no idea what a UNIX kernel is, or if one in fact does have to compile ones own - it just sounds like a suitably arcane technical thing), not everyone knows where to shop for a good suit, and what to ask for to get one. Many people still believe that if you go to a fancy store and ask the beautiful people who work there what to get, the expensive rags they sell you will be as good as it gets. And if you just paid 3 000 for a fused, slim fit poly blend suit, you're unlikely to feel very excited about tailoring either.

Putting these two together, I can see why Daniel Craig might enjoy getting out of the suits: he's been forced to wear too-slim, too-short suits for work for years. Tom Ford has a lot to answer for!

@ppk Yeah, I'm a consultant too. It definitely makes it easier when you're already outside of the normal power structure, and not expected to be part of an established team.
 

jko

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unless you are going for a trades related position you should ALWAYS wear a suit
Highly dependent on field, company, and location. I'm in tech and I've never even thought about wearing a suit to an interview, and I've never seen a suit when conducting an interview myself either. I'd try not to let it affect my hiring decisions but I would be surprised to see one.

Expectations matter. A doctor without a white coat or a lawyer without a suit in a courtroom are immediately less credible. If I'm hiring someone to compile Unix kernels, the only visual cues I'm using to evaluate their credibility is the length of their beard, not their dress. If they showed up in a suit, I'd be worried.

So:
I've had two different managers tell me that if I had worn a suit to my interview they wouldn't have hired me. Early on in my career this scared the hell out of me. Now if I was to hear that I'd just tell them I'll take one of the other half dozen offers I have and that I hope we never work together.
The point of this insight to me is that if there's enough demand for your skills, it doesn't matter how you dress (whether over or under).

There's a kind of an Overton window of dress, and one should understand what levels of dress are radical and what are acceptable at a given situation. That's why I believe people who say they "dress for themselves" are either socially maladjusted, or antisocial, or both.
 

jko

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I work for a company that has no dress code and I take full advantage of that. Nobody (as far as I know) gives a damn about what I wear to the office.
I always find it ironic that the people who want to dress very casually because "the way you dress shouldn't matter", are the same ones who get provoked when someone shows up in a suit. 🤷‍♂️
 

DorianGreen

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I've had a lot of thoughts about why some people are so happy to get out of the "boring" suit, and I have a couple of thoughts:

1. To a lot of people, the suit was forced upon them. "Nice" clothes in general is something many young men are taught to fear: you are forced to wear them for events that you are forced to go to, where you're suppose to sit still and be good. You may have to eat food you really hate, and pretend to be happy to see people you can't even remember. You might get your cheeks pinched by your aunt.

At work, it doesn't get any better. To most people, the suit was something you were forced to wear 5 days a week. Just like many #menswear guys chafe at the idea of having to wear slim fit, poly blend polos to fit in, many men chafed at having to put on a suit they hated.

2. Suits are extremely uncomfortable if they don't fit, and most people don't know the first thing about fit. This goes for people selling clothes as well as people buying them.

In our little bubble of guides and googling, it's sometimes hard to forget how much of this knowledge of cut, fit and make is esoteric knowledge. Just like not everyone knows how to compile their own UNIX kernel (disclaimer: I have no idea what a UNIX kernel is, or if one in fact does have to compile ones own - it just sounds like a suitably arcane technical thing), not everyone knows where to shop for a good suit, and what to ask for to get one. Many people still believe that if you go to a fancy store and ask the beautiful people who work there what to get, the expensive rags they sell you will be as good as it gets. And if you just paid 3 000 for a fused, slim fit poly blend suit, you're unlikely to feel very excited about tailoring either.

Putting these two together, I can see why Daniel Craig might enjoy getting out of the suits: he's been forced to wear too-slim, too-short suits for work for years. Tom Ford has a lot to answer for!

@ppk Yeah, I'm a consultant too. It definitely makes it easier when you're already outside of the normal power structure, and not expected to be part of an established team.

I agree about every point.

Only thing which could be inaccurate: allegedly it was Mr Craig himself to ask for that ridiculously slim and short cut, to highlight his muscular physique.
 

Thin White Duke

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I've had a lot of thoughts about why some people are so happy to get out of the "boring" suit, and I have a couple of thoughts:

1. To a lot of people, the suit was forced upon them. "Nice" clothes in general is something many young men are taught to fear: you are forced to wear them for events that you are forced to go to, where you're suppose to sit still and be good. You may have to eat food you really hate, and pretend to be happy to see people you can't even remember. You might get your cheeks pinched by your aunt.

At work, it doesn't get any better. To most people, the suit was something you were forced to wear 5 days a week. Just like many #menswear guys chafe at the idea of having to wear slim fit, poly blend polos to fit in, many men chafed at having to put on a suit they hated.

2. Suits are extremely uncomfortable if they don't fit, and most people don't know the first thing about fit. This goes for people selling clothes as well as people buying them.

In our little bubble of guides and googling, it's sometimes hard to forget how much of this knowledge of cut, fit and make is esoteric knowledge. Just like not everyone knows how to compile their own UNIX kernel (disclaimer: I have no idea what a UNIX kernel is, or if one in fact does have to compile ones own - it just sounds like a suitably arcane technical thing), not everyone knows where to shop for a good suit, and what to ask for to get one. Many people still believe that if you go to a fancy store and ask the beautiful people who work there what to get, the expensive rags they sell you will be as good as it gets. And if you just paid 3 000 for a fused, slim fit poly blend suit, you're unlikely to feel very excited about tailoring either.

Putting these two together, I can see why Daniel Craig might enjoy getting out of the suits: he's been forced to wear too-slim, too-short suits for work for years. Tom Ford has a lot to answer for!

@ppk Yeah, I'm a consultant too. It definitely makes it easier when you're already outside of the normal power structure, and not expected to be part of an established team.
More good points here but concerning Daniel Craig - Matt Spaiser of Bondsuits notes that Craig was wearing shrunken Tom Ford suits in his personal life prior to wearing them as Bond and believes that Craig influenced the costume department to dress Bond in sausage skins rather than have them forced upon him.

(Edit - I just saw DG has made the same point as I was typing!)

Strangely he was photographed at Wimbledon earlier this summer and from the limited perspective of a photo taken of him sat down in the crowd he appeared to be suited up and well dressed so this apparent rejection of tailoring seems to be very recent!

I’m always amazed by the number of celebs who fall for this crap. QF Robert Downey Jr in a grey suit with vents on the front, Eddie Redmayne with a giant suit-material flower stitched onto his lapel, numerous faux pas by Brad Pitt (sloppy suits, skirt) … they’re already celebs so why the compulsion towards these attention-seeking moves? Are they paid to do it? Are they that hard up for cash?

(Sorry to have drifted off topic here!)
 

Thin White Duke

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Come on now, they were hardly that slim.
I think ‘Skyfall’ was the worst. Here’s an excellent reference ..

 

ppk

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If I'm hiring someone to compile Unix kernels, the only visual cues I'm using to evaluate their credibility is the length of their beard, not their dress. If they showed up in a suit, I'd be worried.
I used to know how to compile Unix kernels but that was a long time ago. I now wear tailoring. I also don't have a beard. Hmm. Correlation?
There's a kind of an Overton window of dress, and one should understand what levels of dress are radical and what are acceptable at a given situation. That's why I believe people who say they "dress for themselves" are either socially maladjusted, or antisocial, or both.
Not sure I completely agree. I do dress for myself. It's a form of self-expression. However, I choose to include the constraints of the "Overton window" in my dress. IOW, I care about context when I dress. I enjoy the challenge of solving the multi-constrained problem. BTW, my solutions aren't always on the mark. 😆

Great post @jko.
 

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