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How to identify Lobb Prestige & St Crepin?

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Jangofett, Nov 27, 2011.

  1. tj100

    tj100 Senior member

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    Yes, but that is JL Paris and the insole stamp (London - Paris - New York) is from JL St. James. JLSJ certainly did have storefronts in Paris and London, but NYC is a mystery. It seems unlikely that JL St. James ever had a NYC storefront, given that they have only ever made bespoke shoes (the RTW range was developed by Hermes after the acquisition of the Paris shop).
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2011
  2. PhiloVance

    PhiloVance Senior member

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    Ah, I see your point. Thanks for clarifying!
     
  3. Jangofett

    Jangofett Senior member

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    Ah!

    That explains the difficulty in finding and failing to find CJ by Dimitri.
    I have also failed to find LV done by another French shoe maker, was it Dimitri as well?
    And the difficulties in finding Yohji by Corthay.
    There are still some Jil by Lattanzi floating around though.

    BTW have the Northampton sales started again?
    Anyone noticed the number of resellers listing new Lobbs again at a variety of sizes and at upwards of 300 pounds?
     
  4. Jangofett

    Jangofett Senior member

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    Here is an interesting development.

    If all bedevelled Lobb soles are Prestiges and on that basis Aintree are Prestiges, then what about this?

    [ATTACHMENT=1623]$(KGrHqR,!lgE7HCkP)rrBP!ZklQRVg~~60_3.jpg (61k. jpg file)[/ATTACHMENT]

    Thats an Aintree and it comes with normal soles?
    Did Lobb bungle and put the wrong soles and hene list it as an 'R'?
    Or is this a downgrade of Aintree from Prestige to RTW?

    Anyone has any views??
     
  5. KObalto

    KObalto Senior member

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    Those look beveled to me. Not sure about bedevelled.
     
  6. Jangofett

    Jangofett Senior member

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    Uh yah beveled not bedevelled.
    However, the soles look smooth and don't have that whitish rectangular patch where the front of the foot is, which are found in Prestiges.
     
  7. tj100

    tj100 Senior member

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    It's clearly a beveled sole, but not painted black, as Lobb typically does to its bevels. My guess is that either it was left natural at customer request, or got its "R" reject before soling, and they just threw on a spare beveled sole they had lying around. I think the concept of "prestige" goes a little out the window with factory rejects - if it didn't meet quality standards, can you really consider it a "prestige" shoe?
     
  8. NORE

    NORE Senior member

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    That said, has anyone ever seen prestige rejects?
     
  9. tj100

    tj100 Senior member

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    I don't own any, but I have definitely seen prestige models with an "R" stamp available for sale.
     
  10. NORE

    NORE Senior member

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    Interesting.
     
  11. Jangofett

    Jangofett Senior member

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    Absolutely. Tons of R Prestiges for sale. Thats the only way hoi polloi like me can afford Lobb Prestiges other than owners wishing to sell their old Prestiges.

    You are right to query whether an R Prestige is really a Prestige just like whether a polar bear with brown fur is really a polar bear.
    Hmm the mind boggles.

    But my latest discovery throws a spanner in the works because we cannot identify Prestiges or St Crepin by bevelled soles anymore.
    The only way is to do so by knowing their models, which can be difficult since as you have pointed out, some models are not commonly or well known or could not be found in their website.
     
  12. NORE

    NORE Senior member

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    Was talking with my son about this earlier. Did you know polar bears are black with clear hollow fur?

    to the point, Lobb St. Crepin by earthdragon here

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    That sole is enough to make me want Lobbs even if the uppers are ghastly.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2012
  13. tj100

    tj100 Senior member

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    Not really. The Aintree you posted clearly has a bevelled sole. It's just not painted black. The sole color doesn't have anything to do with the range that the shoe is in.
     
  14. JayJay

    JayJay Senior member

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    I thought the uppers on the 2011 St. Crepin was ghastly until I saw it in person, and then tried it on. There seemed to be a night and day difference, at least IMO.
     
  15. Jangofett

    Jangofett Senior member

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    Well, yes. But if one were to look at less than perfect pics off the net or to the uninitiated, one cant tell immediately whether the soles are bevelled or not.

    The easiest way is by identifying the painted black soles like in NORE's pic. In fact, I have more than 1 R Prestige with such painted black soles and I was surprised Lobb didnt have a consistent approach in painting all Prestiges ' soles black. So, the best way is still to identify by the shoes model if the soles are not black.

    Seems like Sausages doesn't know he got a Prestige. If he did, he would have priced it accordingly.
     
  16. tj100

    tj100 Senior member

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    This method doesn't work; Lobb has made non-prestige shoes with painted black soles (though they were all black, as opposed to the black/natural pattern of the bevelled waist).

    It's also not my experience that prestige shoes command much of a premium in the secondary market. At least, not in B&S - the eBay sellers hype everything as "prestige" and hope for the best.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2012
  17. Jangofett

    Jangofett Senior member

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    1. Have never seen a black sole Lobb before, other than those with rubber soles.

    2. As for pricing of Prestige, I have managed to sell a Prestige at slightly higher pricing than non Prestiges.
    Guess its a matter of marketing, marketing, marketing.

    If a Prestige cost 1 to 2 grand brand new, the buyer may just fork out 100 to 200 more for it used.
    Of course, things like museum finish do affect the final pricing.

    BS is a bit odd. There are some sellers who let go of their Lobbs including Prestiges at low prices.
    Some just put a high price like 700 to 1 grand and wait.
     
  18. tj100

    tj100 Senior member

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    (1) I'll try to remember to take a photo at home tonight; I definitely have a few black-soled non-prestige (all loafers IIRC).

    (2) For BNIB examples, they probably do get a small premium, but it's pretty small. From what I've seen, the big determinents of price are size, model/color (a black City II will be a pretty expensive shoe) and whether or not the trees are with the shoes. Considering that most prestiges come with trees (and others don't) I've always believed that it made up most of whatever price gap there is.

    BS has two distinct kinds of sellers: the ones who are trying to make money, and the ones who are not. One population is happy to churn inventory at cost (keeping things they like, selling things that don't work for them), and the other wants to make $$$ - hence the gap in offering prices.
     
  19. Jangofett

    Jangofett Senior member

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    (1) Now I remember - I used to have a Lobb with black soles. But its a boat shoe with thick and hard black rubber soles.

    (2) I beg to differ. I sold unused Lobbs, with shop wear compared to used Lobbs. Noticed a big discernible increase in bidding activity and easily 50 to 100 more than used Lobbs.

    Any black 'labelled' shoe will fetch a good price.

    Shoe trees are interesting. For some reason, people like wooden shoe trees with Lobb, EG, Corthay or Berluti metal plaques on them and would pay more for them than normal trees. So yes, if one were to include trees, one can get more for them since buyers can convince or rationalise to themselves to pay 50 plus more for them.

    On this note, the prices of Lobb are off the charts now! Its a good time to sell your Lobbs if you got some nice ones and I managed to ride the crest of successful Lobb selling.

    About a year ago, I managed to sell a Lobb for a paltry 200 and another, with less than 5 wears and almost no crease, for less than 300.
    Now, I can get 400 to 500 for them easy and without trees.
    There are plenty of interest from South Korea and Japan. Don't know why, but Lobb could be increasing their presence there and them folks think paying less than 1 grand for good and used Lobb is still cheaper than buying them new from the boutiques.
     
  20. tj100

    tj100 Senior member

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    I totally agree with this. You probably have more recent info than I do - I stopped even looking @ eBay and B&S because the prices got to a point where it was just easier to wait for the sales at Madison Ave & SCP.

    It used to be a rare shoe (even BNIB) that commanded more than $500 in the secondary market; now it seems like that's the entry point.
     

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