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How to identify Lobb Prestige & St Crepin?

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Jangofett, Nov 27, 2011.

  1. Jangofett

    Jangofett Senior member

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    After searching the archives, cant seem to find the answer.

    So how do one identify a JL RTW piece from their Prestige line?

    Does it mean all Prestiges come with full bevelled waist on their soles? Do any Prestiges come with normal soles?

    What about their St Crepin range? Does it also comes with full bevelled waist and the year on the inside of the shoes?

    Any illuminating info from experts would be much appreciated. Cheers!
     
  2. LS7

    LS7 Senior member

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    This. The Prestige line has a full bevelled waist, the Classic line is only slightly curved. The waist is also stamped with the JL insignia on Prestige shoes.

    Can't comment on St. Crepin's as I haven't seen those in person.
     
  3. tj100

    tj100 Senior member

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    Prestige always have a beveled waist and come with lasted trees included.

    The St. Crepin is not a "range" per se, but a limited release shoe in the Prestige range. In the past, these shoes have been identified only by their model year ("John Lobb 2009") and were released on Saint Crispin's Day (October 25).
     
  4. Jangofett

    Jangofett Senior member

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    So applying what we learnt, did the unfortunately named Sausages got it wrong by declaring the Houghton as Prestiges?

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/John-Lobb-H...er-Formal-Lace-Up-Shoes-UK-11-E-/360401434849

    And if my JL says John Lobb 2003 at the sides, does that make it a St Crepin?
     
  5. tj100

    tj100 Senior member

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    Yes; oddly enough, I can't find any retailers of the Houghton (and I've never heard of the model). It may be production for SS2012 that the factory prematurely sold the 2nds of, but that's my only explanation. These are not prestige shoes; they also will not retail for $1650; more like $1100-1200. I will say that Lobbs are very commonly misrepresented by sellers on eBay (and sometimes on B&S, but they're often corrected here).


    Hmm. Interesting question. I believe they only started calling them "St. Crepin" in 2009. A John Lobb 2003 is thus not technically a "St. Crepin" model, but it's effectively the same thing.
     
  6. Jangofett

    Jangofett Senior member

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    [ATTACHMENT=1310]$(KGrHqNHJBkE63VtjCZJBOzlmWcl4Q~~60_3.jpg (87k. jpg file)[/ATTACHMENT]

    Here's something to muddy the waters a bit.

    This is described as '2004' on the inside but the soles are definitely not bedevelled as you can see the stitches at the sides and the stylings is more of Lobbs RTW range.

    So Prestige?
     
  7. tj100

    tj100 Senior member

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    Last edited: Nov 27, 2011
  8. bengal-stripe

    bengal-stripe Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Those shoes have been butchered.

    They had a half sole applied, stitched crudely with huge stitches. By the size of the stitching. I presume they were run through a Blake machine and have now an additional row of stitches all over the insole.

    Stay well clear.
     
  9. tj100

    tj100 Senior member

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    I am curious what condition those shoes were in (and how they got there) that made the resole + polish job an improvement. They must have been in a terrible industrial accident or something.
     
  10. Jangofett

    Jangofett Senior member

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    No kidding! Thats really a Prestige! With the stylings I thought this was one of those Lobb country shoes JL makes for HRH to wear during one of those fox hunts while they are busy traipsing over others' private properties.

    I am impressed. You should get a job with JL. :D

    I didnt want to ask in the first post cos I didnt want to press my luck but do you know how to distinguish between the MTO and RTW of JLP, I mean JL Paris and St James then?
     
  11. Jangofett

    Jangofett Senior member

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    Ehm you mean the Blake stitching cant be remediated? The owner probably couldnt find a good shoe guy near him.
    If those were mine, I would have replaced the damn soles with some nice Reidenbach ones totally.
    Probably cheaper by half or more than getting JL to resole them again.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2011
  12. tj100

    tj100 Senior member

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    You're confusing a few things here. There are a few different categories:

    JLP RTW
    JLP MTO
    JLP Bespoke
    JLSJ (Bespoke)

    All John Lobb St. James are bespoke. They are easy to tell from JLP simply by the branding in them. The John Lobb logo is sort of a signature on the insole, and the royal warrants are present. It's quite easy to tell a JLSJ shoe from a JLP shoe. The lasts are also quite different (in my opinion, the JLSJ shoes are not handsome).

    The three JLP categories can be more difficult to tell. I've never seen a pair of JLP Bespoke in person. I believe the only marking on the inside is the John Lobb signature (similar to JLSJ), but no royal warrants.

    JPL RTW and MTO are indistinguishable unless you really know your JLP history. You'd have to know that a particular model was never made in the color/last/sole for RTW. The shoes are basically indistinguishable, but an obvious tip-off would be different sizes on the left and right shoes (a common MTO request), or a really odd color.
     
  13. bengal-stripe

    bengal-stripe Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Initially I thought it was a re-sole job. But the JL heel top-lift is totally undamaged. (An cobbler wouldn't be able to get hold of that piece. He would have just replaced it with any old top-lift).

    So I presume the new sole (maybe 3mm (1/8") or less, would have been added as "protection". There is a thriving market for "Schutzsohlen" in Germany, fuelled by irresponsible cobblers who want to earn a crust.. They will ruin a brand-new and perfect shoe with their crude applied "protection".

    The original sole applied byJohn Lobb is likely to be of a far higher quality than the additional one.
     
  14. tj100

    tj100 Senior member

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    If they were cheap enough, I might buy them and send them straight to B. Nelson for a full recraft.

    I don't particularly like the style, but if it was something I did like, I'd pay <$100 plus another ~$100 to B. Nelson, and have a pretty solid shoe for $200+.

    Unfortunately, somebody on eBay is probably going to pay $400 for those monstrosities.
     
  15. Jangofett

    Jangofett Senior member

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    Heh! Maybe the owner wanted the cobbler to do that cos he wanted the Lobb heel top-lift to be retained?
     
  16. Jangofett

    Jangofett Senior member

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    Havent they been using the St James 2 royal warrants on the insoles for some time already?
    I have seen JLs dating back decades with the 2 royal warrants on them. So how can one tell whether its recent?

    As for JL Paris, I have shoes with John Lobb Paris printed but I have also seen John Lobb Paris in a cursive writing.
    Just an update and does not mean different makes?

    BTW how about distinguishing Crockett & Jones normal and CJ by Dmitri Gomez? :happy:
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2011
  17. tj100

    tj100 Senior member

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    I don't think there's any way to legitimately date John Lobb St. James shoes; they have changed very little over the decades, so it's very hard to tell how old they are.



    Currently (and in the recent past) the cursive "John Lobb Paris" denoted bespoke from JLP, printed logo was for RTW/MTO. On older shoes, I'm not sure if this is the case.
     
  18. bengal-stripe

    bengal-stripe Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    This is the logo which JL (Paris) uses for bespoke work: just the “handwritten” John Lobb going lengthwise over the ‘sock (insole cover)

    [​IMG]

    John Lobb (London) uses the signature going crosswise and adding ‘London-Paris-New York, (which is a bit of bull, as they sold the Paris branch in 1976 and, as far as I know, never had a brick and mortar presence in New York).

    [​IMG]

    They also use the Royal Warrants: Queen and Duke of Edinburgh from the 1950s, adding the Prince of Wales after his investiture in 1969. Maybe five years ago the firm lost the warrant from HM the Queen, so now, they’re back to two again.

    This is the logo JL (Paris) uses for ready-to-wear (manufactured in Northampton, England)

    [​IMG]

    There is no such thing as a collection "C&J by Dimitri Gomez". Gomez has designed a number of lasts (and possibly shoe designs) for C&J, but in this respect he is no different from other freelance designers. His own work isn't signed with Gomez either, but with "Dimitri - Bottier"

    http://www.dimitribottier.com/1.aspx

    Hope that helps.
     
  19. Ich_Dien

    Ich_Dien Senior member

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    Haha, I never noticed that - cheeky! In a side note, a mate of mine plays cricket with John Hunter Lobb.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2011
  20. PhiloVance

    PhiloVance Senior member

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    I'm not sure what you mean by "brick and mortar" presence but there is a john lobb shop on 71st or 72nd and Madison. The shop sells RTW JLP shoes. I'm not sure how long its been there but it seems to have been at that location for some time - of course, I dont think they "make" shoes on the premises, but doesnt that count as a B&M location?
     

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