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How old are these Brooks madras pants??

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by weeks, May 13, 2005.

  1. weeks

    weeks Senior member

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    I bought this pair of Brooks madras pants (NWT)today at the thrift store and was wondering if anyone could tell by the tags approximately when they were made. They look vintage to me. ( I know that the current Brooks tags are different) Thanks [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     


  2. Horace

    Horace Senior member

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    RN corresponds to Franco Manufacturing Company (est. 1952) -- makers (or owners -- now at least) of Hanes, Martex, et al. I think they did private label stuff.

    I'm going to guess that they are c. early '80's to about '91 or '92. I tend to think earlier because all the good silly prep wear started to disappear as the decade went on. Maybe they're as far back as the late 70's. But probably not earlier than that.
     


  3. Teacher

    Teacher Senior member

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    Based on the font, tag styles, and the fact that it's obviously not printed on dot-matrix, I don't think these go back to the 70's. I'd guess mid-1980's to early 1990's.
     


  4. weeks

    weeks Senior member

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    Thanks for your replies so far.

    I found it interesting that someone would buy these pants, never hem them, and give them away to the thrift store. From the look of the tag, I thought that they might be older (60's or 70's). But I am far from an expert.

    The explanation of the dot matrix v. printing seems plausible.

    Thanks again
     


  5. Horace

    Horace Senior member

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    Why would dot-matrix be relevant here? would the labels necessarily be printed on a printer? Why not a small press or other means?
     


  6. LabelKing

    LabelKing Senior member

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    (Teacher @ May 12 2005,22:29) Based on the font, tag styles, and the fact that it's obviously not printed on dot-matrix, I don't think these go back to the 70's. I'd guess mid-1980's to early 1990's.
    Why would dot-matrix be relevant here? Â would the labels necessarily be printed on a printer? Â Why not a small press or other means?
    I still seem some labels like that. AlohaRag's labels seem to look like that although I have no conceivable idea what dot-matrix is.
     


  7. Vintage Gent

    Vintage Gent Senior member

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    As someone who haunts thrift stores for vintage clothes on a fairly regular basis, I'm always surprised by the surfeit of never worn (deadstock) vintage that I come across: a series of 12 1940s ties with the price tags still on, numerous 50s sports shirts with tags and pins, trousers with an unfinished hem. I often wonder how these survived unworn for 50+ years. Were they a gift, less than treasured? Did these survive from the never-sold stock of an old men's store? Did someone die not long after the purchase? This is particularly surprising because most men had sparser wardrobes in the earlier half of the last century.
     


  8. Teacher

    Teacher Senior member

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    (Teacher @ May 12 2005,22:29) Based on the font, tag styles, and the fact that it's obviously not printed on dot-matrix, I don't think these go back to the 70's. I'd guess mid-1980's to early 1990's.
    Why would dot-matrix be relevant here? Â would the labels necessarily be printed on a printer? Â Why not a small press or other means?
    It's too expensive to do them on a press because of speed. Stores began using lable printers that were dot-matrix some time in the 1970's (early, I think...could have even been late 1960's but I don't think so). Later, some started moving to ink and then laser. However, now that I look at the pics again, I notice there's no UPC. That probably rules out 1990's. Not all stores began using UPC's right away, of course, so it could still be any time before that. Just a thought.
     


  9. weeks

    weeks Senior member

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    One more quick question

    From what period was the blue inside tag with gold writing which says "Brooks Brothers- Established 1818" used?

    The reason I ask is that I have had a Brooks suit for some time with the same "established 1818" tag that is on these pants.

    Thanks
     


  10. Horace

    Horace Senior member

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    My guess from gear that I bought from all through 80's and early is that it may be that period. Sometime later (And with one or two exceptions I've just now returned to Brooks after close to 15 year haitus), they switched from gold on blue to white on blue. Where they are now, I know not.
     


  11. Horace

    Horace Senior member

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    (Horace @ May 12 2005,23:12)
    Based on the font, tag styles, and the fact that it's obviously not printed on dot-matrix, I don't think these go back to the 70's. I'd guess mid-1980's to early 1990's.
    Why would dot-matrix be relevant here? Â would the labels necessarily be printed on a printer? Â Why not a small press or other means?
    It's too expensive to do them on a press because of speed. Stores began using lable printers that were dot-matrix some time in the 1970's (early, I think...could have even been late 1960's but I don't think so). Later, some started moving to ink and then laser. However, now that I look at the pics again, I notice there's no UPC. That probably rules out 1990's. Not all stores began using UPC's right away, of course, so it could still be any time before that. Just a thought.
    I'm still a bit respectfully skeptical of these claims because a) I'm not sure that printing in the old sense was more expensive at this point then dot-matrix if you're doing any sort of volume. b) why would the natural progression be from dot-matrix to ink to laser. I'd think that ink (strictly speaking in the sense used above) would come before dot-matrix. Having said that, when were the first dot-matrix printers? I remember I had a telex in the 70's having a telex that I think was dot-matrix.
     


  12. Teacher

    Teacher Senior member

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    (Teacher @ May 13 2005,13:55)
    Based on the font, tag styles, and the fact that it's obviously not printed on dot-matrix, I don't think these go back to the 70's. I'd guess mid-1980's to early 1990's.
    Why would dot-matrix be relevant here? Â would the labels necessarily be printed on a printer? Â Why not a small press or other means?

    It's too expensive to do them on a press because of speed. Stores began using lable printers that were dot-matrix some time in the 1970's (early, I think...could have even been late 1960's but I don't think so). Later, some started moving to ink and then laser. However, now that I look at the pics again, I notice there's no UPC. That probably rules out 1990's. Not all stores began using UPC's right away, of course, so it could still be any time before that. Just a thought.
    I'm still a bit respectfully skeptical of these claims because a) I'm not sure that printing in the old sense was more expensive at this point then dot-matrix if you're doing any sort of volume. b) why would the natural progression be from dot-matrix to ink to laser. Â I'd think that ink (strictly speaking in the sense used above) would come before dot-matrix. Having said that, when were the first dot-matrix printers? Â I remember I had a telex in the 70's having a telex that I think was dot-matrix.
    Oh, I should have been clearer. Thanks for pointing that out, Horace. I meant "ink" as in "ink jet," not as in "press." It would be silly, of course, to go from a dot matrix printer to a press system. Dot matrix came out in the 1960's; individual stores may have had them at that time, or may have waited until the 1970's. The reason ink presses would be impractical for clothing tags is that each store would have had only one to five of each tag (with a few exceptions). This is because of not only the different model/price codes but also the different sizes for inventory purposes. Therefore, the press would have had to be reset every one to five tags. That's very different from, say, a newspaper, where the press is reset only every 1,000 to 10,000,000 copies. Such a high reset rate would be extremely expensive for something that should cost the customer less than a cent. Before stores had their own label printers, they used pricing guns to create price stickers or price code tags.
     


  13. Matt

    Matt [email protected]

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    the tags are printed instore? i would have thought they would have been done at warehouse stage, more easily justifying press printing en masse...is that logical, or am i just a child of the Amazon-era?
     


  14. Teacher

    Teacher Senior member

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    Not always logical in a smaller operation. When I worked retail (late 1980's to mid-ish 1990's), we always had the capacity to print labels in-store when we needed them. There are always returns, misprints, etc. Also, Brooks doesn't have that many stores...it's not JC Penney or Sears.
     


  15. HoustonBusiness

    HoustonBusiness Active Member

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    See if you can track down the person who did Rodney Dangerfield's wardrobe for Caddyshack. I'll he/she could tell you. [​IMG]
     


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