HOW MUCH?

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by ernest, Feb 22, 2005.

  1. William Massena

    William Massena Well-Known Member

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    Having been a watch collector for 20 years I have noticed a funny trend over these years. The guys with the nicest watches are usually very ill fitted and show up with the ugliest shoes. Also the opposite hold true, I have noticed, especially here in NYC that well dress gents have very poor taste in watches. I have watches in my collection from the 20's including a Cartier tank allongee (without bling bling thank you), which I must admit does more than bring me joy since I could sell it today and fund a year of Ivy league college for my kid, especially given the fact that I paid $2,200 for it in 1991. I seriously doubt that any of my suits from the early 90's could be sold to fund more than 3 school books. Like clothes, watches are available at different price level, while I often read in this forum that some of you buy used clothes (something I could not imagine doing), I have read a few purchasing Kenneth Cole quartz from the price of a decent vintage manual wind. Watches do require knowledge and taste but not always money. There were much more bargains 20 years ago but the same can be say about clothes. Finally, you need to buy only one watch which could potentially reward you for the rest of your life, everyday and (pardon the pun) every minute, I can hardly think of any other material object that could do the same. Jon, it is funny that you have a quote from Charles V, king of Spain, & Holland and Emperor of the Holy Roman Empire (parts of Austria), he was most likely the largest watch collector of all time. He was known to own half the clocks produced and created during his time. William
     


  2. ernest

    ernest Senior member

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    Do you consider H&K as good?
     


  3. ernest

    ernest Senior member

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    Which ones?
     


  4. ernest

    ernest Senior member

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    Some of M&S shirts are very good (they had been rated by the financial time just below T&A, this issue was on H&K website)

    Not sneering anymore but laughing. If you spend 200 euros on shirts which is just woven cotton I thing you can not say seriously that a good watch is 400 euros.


    Isn't anything you pay above 120 euros in a shirt just appareance and prestige too?
     


  5. ernest

    ernest Senior member

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    You can not pay $99 in a tie and 300 in shoes = not serious.
     


  6. RJman

    RJman Posse Member Dubiously Honored

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    Er, do you mean that $99 and $300 are not enough, respectively, or that anyone who spends $99 for a tie should spend more than $300 on shoes?
     


  7. ernest

    ernest Senior member

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    The only silly things are your arguments =

    1) Prices of the best watch companies go up of 10% every years.
    If you are able to invest $5000 and make more than 10% of interest and to buy a watch with this income = you must be VERY RICH and so saving $ 10 000 on a watch = beeing a penny pincher

    2) The watch is as important as the suit. Everybody wears a suit and most of people don't care about your clothes in details. People who would look at your suit would also look at your watch.

    3) Thinking that a $400 Seiko is enough = like thinking that a $400 Zara suit is a very nice one and not worse than a Brioni as in both case you have a jacket+pants.
     


  8. ernest

    ernest Senior member

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    (ernest @ Feb. 22 2005,17:41) You can not pay $99 in a tie and 300 in shoes = not serious.
    Er, do you mean that $99 and $300 are not enough, respectively, or that anyone who spends $99 for a tie should spend more than $300 on shoes?
    Check my prices to find the reply.
     


  9. RJman

    RJman Posse Member Dubiously Honored

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    You not da boss a me beeeeeoottch.
     


  10. ernest

    ernest Senior member

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    (ernest @ Feb. 22 2005,17:57) Check my prices to find the reply.
    You not da boss a me beeeeeoottch.
    ????????,
     


  11. bryce330

    bryce330 Senior member

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    (bryce330 @ Feb. 22 2005,20:22) It depends what you mean by "good." I think the shirt price might be a little low - for a quality shirt with single needle stitching, MOP buttons, etc. you are probably looking at closer to 150-180 Euro. This is about the normal price range for Zegna shirts, which are the minimum of what I'd consider "good." Most of the other prices you listed are too high, such as cufflinks, belts, and especially watches (there are plenty of quality automatic watches for 300-400 Euro).
    Do you consider H&K as good?
    Yes, but what are the retail prices for H&K? If they are 120 Euro, that's a pretty good deal, they are quite a bit more in the US.
     


  12. bryce330

    bryce330 Senior member

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    (bryce330 @ Feb. 22 2005,20:22) there are plenty of quality automatic watches for 300-400 Euro
    Which ones?
    Erken's watches are in that price range and they are certainly "good" watches, although they won't blow anyone away.
     


  13. linux_pro

    linux_pro Senior member

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    (linux_pro @ Feb. 22 2005,21:35) Whose watch is that? I'm lost. My watch is a simple (but not TOO cheap) gold and SS Seiko. It has served me quite well. The idea of spending money on a Cartier or Rolex seems silly to me. I could invest the savings, and in 2-3 years have enough return to buy 2 or 3 Rolex's, although I would rather reinvest that money. It reminds me of one of my father's favorite sayings, "Don't spend money on anything that's not going to make you money." You could say a nice suit is extravagant, but I don't think so - it's more of an investment. It is important to have quality suits if you would like to have a good job. My car is a different story. Heh heh. But spending more than 400 USD on a watch seems ludicrous to me. I have a clock on my cell phone, after all. Again, it just comes down to personal tastes I guess.
    The only silly things are your arguments = 1) Prices of the best watch companies go up of 10% every years. If you are able to invest $5000 and make more than 10% of interest and to buy a watch with this income = you must be VERY RICH and so saving $ 10 000 on a watch = beeing a penny pincher 2) The watch is as important as the suit. Everybody wears a suit and most of people don't care about your clothes in details. People who would look at your suit would also look at your watch. 3) Thinking that a $400 Seiko is enough = like thinking that a $400 Zara suit is a very nice one and not worse than a Brioni as in both case you have a jacket+pants.
    1) Seikos will always be about $200 - $400. I am somewhat of a penny-pincher. I regularly see greater than 10% returns on my investments, particularly with my high-risk investments which is where I put savings like that (my automated forex engines are returning 84% per month average since October 2004, although this rate would decrease exponentially were you to increase the value of the account to greater than $50k). 2) It is? If people don't care about the details of my clothes, why would they care about the details of my watch? You'd have to roll up my sleeve and really look at my watch to know that it wasn't a Cartier or Rolex. And I like my Seiko. It is functional. It is not too flashy. It will not get me killed during a mugging. And best of all, it is simple. I can't stand chrono watches, and I do not want the date on my watch, either. Just the time, thank you. I don't have all day to be staring at my diamond-encrusted wristwatch, I just need to know what time it is. 3) I buy my suits on sale or on ebay. If I can find a Brioni for $500-$600, I will wear a Brioni. If I see a nice Zegna, or that Brooks Bro's suit I just bought, for a reasonable price around this range, I will pick one up. The only people who will notice the difference between a Kiton and a decent Zegna are people who are obsessed with fasion labels, and the person wearing the suit. Frankly, I just want a suit that is going to look sharp at a meeting and fit well and be comfortable. "Nice" becomes very subjective at a certain point.
     


  14. ernest

    ernest Senior member

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    (ernest @ Feb. 22 2005,17:32)
    It depends what you mean by "good." Â I think the shirt price might be a little low - for a quality shirt with single needle stitching, MOP buttons, etc. you are probably looking at closer to 150-180 Euro. Â This is about the normal price range for Zegna shirts, which are the minimum of what I'd consider "good." Most of the other prices you listed are too high, such as cufflinks, belts, and especially watches (there are plenty of quality automatic watches for 300-400 Euro).
    Do you consider H&K as good?
    Yes, but what are the retail prices for H&K? Â If they are 120 Euro, that's a pretty good deal, they are quite a bit more in the US.
    121 euros exactly.
     


  15. ernest

    ernest Senior member

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    (ernest @ Feb. 22 2005,17:33)
    there are plenty of quality automatic watches for 300-400 Euro
    Which ones?
    Erken's watches are in that price range and they are certainly "good" watches, although they won't blow anyone away.
    How much is the average second hand watch from this brand sold at Christie's ?
     


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