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How much of SF groupthink do you actually follow?

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by FidelCashflow, Feb 22, 2009.

  1. Hampton

    Hampton Senior member

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  2. FidelCashflow

    FidelCashflow Senior member

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    NECRO POST! - 4 years since I started this thread, I think I follow less SF advice than before. I probably spent the first 2 years since I joined SF learning the rules, and the subsequent years figuring out which ones I should break. :D
     
  3. Claghorn

    Claghorn Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Rules must be understood to know how to properly break them.
     
    2 people like this.
  4. VinnyMac

    VinnyMac Senior member

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    ...interesting. That very statement is a by-product of group-think. The assumption is that the "rules" are correct or (at the least) standards. You have to believe that to acknowledge that there's a right and wrong way to break them.

    I don't (think that I) subscribe to much SF group-think simply because I don't care about most of the things discussed here. I'm more of a recreational user. I pop in to see pictures of things that I like, and I give my advice/two-cents when I see a particularly provocative topic. Still, there's not much written here that gets through to me because I just don't care enough.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2012
  5. Longmorn

    Longmorn Senior member

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    That is a deeply flawed analysis. The unstated assumptions underpinning Claghorn's argument are that A) whether valid or not, the rules are broadly accepted in society, B) there is (or was) a rationale for the rules that might have some validity, and C) regardless of their validity, there are likely to be some consequences for breaking the rules which should be considered before doing so. In other words, it's about making an informed decision, not about prima facie accepting the 'rightness' of the rules.

    Having said that, I dress more conservatively for work than many people who post here, and often far more casually than many outside of work. The 'rules' differ according to industry/profession, role, rank and geography, and so I mainly consider them in terms of how others will interpret what I'm wearing. It's an exercise in social anthropology.

    While I learn from all of SF, those I respect the most are the members who post with a sense of humor and maintain a reasonable perspective on the comparative frivolity of the subject. Thankfully no one's life is on the line over the which is the best double-monkstrap, or whether fresco or finnmeresco is a better summer suiting fabric.

    Cheers,
    LM
     
  6. TiberiasUSA

    TiberiasUSA Senior member

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    +1
     
  7. VinnyMac

    VinnyMac Senior member

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    To use "broadly accepted" as justification would imply that it's "correct or (at the least) a standard)," which is what I said. Wording things differently as the basis for a long-winded rant is a "deeply flawed" debate strategy. Disagreeing is fine, but pulling things out of your @ss just for the sake of arguing with someone who you disagree with is another thing. After reading your first 1.5 sentences, I passed on reading the rest of your comment...nice job.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2012
  8. Ianiceman

    Ianiceman Senior member

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    There are too many people on this board who it seems to me have acquired a small SF fan club and due to getting regular if not daily compliments from their entourage of a dozen strangers on the Internet, have fallen under the impression that they don't look fucking ridiculous to everyone else who sees them in the real world. Either that or a lot of people have been sold mirrors that were left over from the fun house!
     
  9. VinnyMac

    VinnyMac Senior member

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    Which ones did you decide to break?
     
  10. Longmorn

    Longmorn Senior member

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    As usual, your reading comprehension is as impressive as your manners. If you can't stand even polite disagreement you're not going to fare well in a discussion forum.
     
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  11. FidelCashflow

    FidelCashflow Senior member

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    Where to start... just a few random things that come to mind

    -I always leave one button open if a jacket has working sleeves
    -I wear suits without ties
    -I wear suits loose - not everything has to be fitted down to the millimeter
    -I have many fused jackets - the dreaded "bubbling" seems to be an old wives tale with modern fusing technology
    -I wear Hugo Boss - granted those items are few and far between as compared to when I joined, but they do make some nice stuff every now and again
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2012
  12. chogall

    chogall Senior member

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    I would call that unlearning the SF mistakes such as buying American, buying AE/Alden, buying gemmed shoes, wearing black suits, etc.
     
  13. Claghorn

    Claghorn Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I wear Hugo Boss and Banana Republic. The former I've never had a problem with and with the latter I've learned to be selective. I like wearing a tie without a jacket, and rolling up my shirt sleeves while doing so, if it's warm out. I wear beanies with suits because warmth takes priority over congruity.

    As far as knowing rules: the rules are social constructs which represent a vague aggregate of aesthetic standards. Acknowlegment of those standards, as well as understanding the root of those standards, allows for any deviation to be both a more significant and a more accurate representation of your personality and style.

    Writers who break the rules of grammar effectively are able to do so because they understand those rules. Yes, such rules are a bit more "in stone," but the principle holds, especially if allowing for greater flexibilty in dressing than in writing.

    This all providing that you care; nothing wrong with style apathy as long as it doesn't slide into sloppiness.
     
  14. bellyhungry

    bellyhungry Senior member

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    Some random thoughts...

    -I don't always wear tie with a suit
    -I am starting to get away from 2" pants cuff
    -I wear brogue/wingtip/derby/blucher with suits
    -I wear ankle socks with shoes - call that my sprezzatura or rebellion

    SF gives me context, awareness, knowledge, and perspectives that helps me optimize the way I dress.

    Several things I learned...

    -In general, fit is more important than pretty much anything else (aside from outrageous color and design)
    -You can find inexpensive suits that look good but almost impossible to find inexpensive shoes that look good

    ...to be continued (or not)....
     
  15. aravenel

    aravenel Senior member

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    QFT.
     
  16. Shirtmaven

    Shirtmaven Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    S someone in the trade.
    I see first hand group think requests.
    such as
    formal shirts: marcela bib fronts with a voile body.
    as soon as I show then what voile is, they back off and try to mask their ignorance of the fabric.

    are your shirts MTM or bespoke?

    Can you make me the Ed morel collar or the GDL collar or is that reserved just for them?

    Do you carry Thomas Mason fabrics?

    I will try to think of a few more..

    On a positive note. readers think I know what I am doing. and order shirts.
     
  17. Claghorn

    Claghorn Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    What is the difference between muslin and voile?
     
  18. etkl

    etkl Senior member

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    No doubt, internet groupthink is a real phenomenom but I think its influence in large part corresponds to the relative age and experience of its audience. For old farts like me, who began thinking about and buying high-end clothing long before the advent of the net, rules set forth by strangers who have dubious bona fides have little force. For this reason, I rarely look at SF's "good taste" threads. OTOH, I have learned a lot from other posters' experiences with makers and sellers of clothing and fabric with whom I'm unfamiliar.

    However,younger forum members who are recently out of school and/or first thinking about how they dress and fit in the work place are more obviously influenced by what they read on the net. That's not necessarily a bad thing, if it's tempered by healthy skepticism, other sources of information, including the workplace and an open mind.
     
  19. yywwyy

    yywwyy Senior member

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    What's so groupthink in Styleforum? None of the examples suggested qualify with clarity. You probably didn't see the effects of groupthink in the meetup because there actually isn't much of it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2012
  20. Shirtmaven

    Shirtmaven Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    muslin is a loosely woven unfinished fabric that is used to make mock up samples.
    it is rather inexpensive.

    Voile is also lighter woven like a batiste.
    but it uses finer cotton and and is finely finished.
    voile can be inexpensive and used for home furnishing.
    but as a shirt. fabric. It is usually made in high end mills.
    you can see through it.
    sometimes voile shirts have doubled fronts.
     

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