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How much can made-to-measure change the existing pattern?

rhb57

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The comment was custom and handmade tho.
Your own article indicates handwork doesn't really matter.
 

dieworkwear

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Your own article indicates handwork doesn't really matter.
I think it matters, but 1) there's great variation between the quality of handwork from tailors, 2) most consumers don't know how it matters and would be better off judging suits by how they look in them, and 3) the way it matters is mostly about craftsmanship (meaning, craft for its own sake).

Since most of us wear clothes to look good in public, I think most people should just pay attention to how they look in a suit, and not buy things just because they were handmade or whatever.
 

Despos

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You still hurt my feelings.
Replace my comment with the explanation that followed. What you want is possible if you find a talented tailor who knows how to cut the silhouette you want for your body type.
The difference is a tailor is making the pattern from your measurements in a drafting system that expresses the look you are after. MTM cuts the inherent silhouette of their patterns to your measurements. MTM does not have the same flexibility to create what you want. The silhouette has to be in their offerings. Go to MTM because they have the look you want and they will cut it to your measurements. Simply changing measurements doesn’t create a look or silhouette or alter the look or silhouette.
 

rhb57

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I think it matters, but 1) there's great variation between the quality of handwork from tailors, 2) most consumers don't know how it matters and would be better off judging suits by how they look in them, and 3) the way it matters is mostly about craftsmanship (meaning, craft for its own sake).

Since most of us wear clothes to look good in public, I think most people should just pay attention to how they look in a suit, and not buy things just because they were handmade or whatever.
Replace my comment with the explanation that followed. What you want is possible if you find a talented tailor who knows how to cut the silhouette you want for your body type.
The difference is a tailor is making the pattern from your measurements in a drafting system that expresses the look you are after. MTM cuts the inherent silhouette of their patterns to your measurements. MTM does not have the same flexibility to create what you want. The silhouette has to be in their offerings. Go to MTM because they have the look you want and they will cut it to your measurements. Simply changing measurements doesn’t create a look or silhouette or alter the look or silhouette.
Honestly, I prefer your old comment😊
 

Despos

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Hand work is like cooking techniques. You can cook chicken in multiple ways. Boiled chicken looks and tastes different than grilled or seared or baked or breaded and fried. Sewing techniques create expression in a garment. Cooking techniques alter the appearance of the food and sewing methods create an effect in the cloth. The cloth is cut flat. All the shaping, angles, roundness or straightness, softness or structure that develop in a garment are from how it is sewn in the same way texture and structure of food is changed by the cooking method.
Is this coherent to anyone?
 

FlyingHorker

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Hand work is like cooking techniques. You can cook chicken in multiple ways. Boiled chicken looks and tastes different than grilled or seared or baked or breaded and fried. Sewing techniques create expression in a garment. Cooking techniques alter the appearance of the food and sewing methods create an effect in the cloth. The cloth is cut flat. All the shaping, angles, roundness or straightness, softness or structure that develop in a garment are from how it is sewn in the same way texture and structure of food is changed by the cooking method.
Is this coherent to anyone?
If I'm following this correctly, is it like going to a Neapolitan tailor, asking for a longer cut jacket with closed quarters, lean cut, roped shoulders, thick shoulder padding along the slope, and then not getting the result you wanted?

Or going to an Indian restaurant and ordering Italian food.
 

dieworkwear

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Hand work is like cooking techniques. You can cook chicken in multiple ways. Boiled chicken looks and tastes different than grilled or seared or baked or breaded and fried. Sewing techniques create expression in a garment. Cooking techniques alter the appearance of the food and sewing methods create an effect in the cloth. The cloth is cut flat. All the shaping, angles, roundness or straightness, softness or structure that develop in a garment are from how it is sewn in the same way texture and structure of food is changed by the cooking method.
Is this coherent to anyone?
It makes sense to me how handsewing can change a flat piece of cloth into a three-dimensional piece of material. But it's unclear to me when and where it matters when compared to factory production.

My impression is that these exist in two very different worlds. Tailors don't always know what technologies are available to factories. Factory workers don't always know the techniques used in a bespoke workshop.

I once interviewed a bespoke tailor who runs a factory. He said there are roll padding machines now that can give the same roll to a lapel as a hand-padded one. According to him, you can't tell the difference between a machine padded lapel and a hand padded one, particularly on fabrics over 9oz or so.

Similarly, JefferyD once mentioned on here that there are machines that can replicate the same softness as a hand-padded chest.

At the same time, I have some sport coats from Solito. His lapels just bloom more than others I've seen in both ready-to-wear and bespoke. When I asked him how does he do it, he just gave a very vague answer about handsewing. So I assume it's just that some people have a better technique. Notably, I don't think his lapels would look good on other types of sport coats, such as Steed's, so it feels part and parcel with the rest of the silhouette.
 

bdavro23

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It makes sense to me how handsewing can change a flat piece of cloth into a three-dimensional piece of material. But it's unclear to me when and where it matters when compared to factory production.

My impression is that these exist in two very different worlds. Tailors don't always know what technologies are available to factories. Factory workers don't always know the techniques used in a bespoke workshop.

I once interviewed a bespoke tailor who runs a factory. He said there are roll padding machines now that can give the same roll to a lapel as a hand-padded one. According to him, you can't tell the difference between a machine padded lapel and a hand padded one, particularly on fabrics over 9oz or so.

Similarly, JefferyD once mentioned on here that there are machines that can replicate the same softness as a hand-padded chest.

At the same time, I have some sport coats from Solito. His lapels just bloom more than others I've seen in both ready-to-wear and bespoke. When I asked him how does he do it, he just gave a very vague answer about handsewing. So I assume it's just that some people have a better technique. Notably, I don't think his lapels would look good on other types of sport coats, such as Steed's, so it feels part and parcel with the rest of the silhouette.
The fact of the matter is that the garment is still being sewn, regardless of whether its done by hand or in a factory. The techniques will not be linear across different tailors or different factories, and how they decide to execute the work will impact the outcome, to @Despos point.
 

philwongnz

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I found this article as I was looking for Tom Ford, very interesting discussion here as I own a few TF suits. The Shelton cut for me is quite narrow on the shoulders compared the classic Windsor (which to some people might be a bit big). I work out quite a bit and depending on the season I can fit a windsor 48R (around 38ish inch chest) off the rack. The Shelton for me is a bit more fitting and works with someone who doesn't work out as much but with less muscles, e.g. a bit more lean.

Going back to the OP question, the "hour glass" can be achieve relatively easily if your body type is an hour class, for example if you a 40 inch chest with a drop of say 4, is a bit harder than say your normal 6.In your extreme of drop 8, I guess getting a fashion suit might be more applicable where their cut are much more slimmer with high arm holes. For example have you looked at Dior Homme? I am talking by Hedi Slimane not Kim Jones. Or some of the SLP suits which are very slim and you can't really wear it if you have some form of muscles on your biceps.

Alternatively I would get a suit which best fits you and get some tailors to give you their opinion on how to make it slimmer.

 

Nobilis Animus

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I found this article as I was looking for Tom Ford, very interesting discussion here as I own a few TF suits. The Shelton cut for me is quite narrow on the shoulders compared the classic Windsor (which to some people might be a bit big). I work out quite a bit and depending on the season I can fit a windsor 48R (around 38ish inch chest) off the rack. The Shelton for me is a bit more fitting and works with someone who doesn't work out as much but with less muscles, e.g. a bit more lean.

Going back to the OP question, the "hour glass" can be achieve relatively easily if your body type is an hour class, for example if you a 40 inch chest with a drop of say 4, is a bit harder than say your normal 6.In your extreme of drop 8, I guess getting a fashion suit might be more applicable where their cut are much more slimmer with high arm holes. For example have you looked at Dior Homme? I am talking by Hedi Slimane not Kim Jones. Or some of the SLP suits which are very slim and you can't really wear it if you have some form of muscles on your biceps.

Alternatively I would get a suit which best fits you and get some tailors to give you their opinion on how to make it slimmer.

This is my life in suits. I also have an 8+ inch drop (10 actually) and find that both designer clothes and custom work can make a very good fit on me, but nothing off the rack.

This is actually why I hesitate to agree that either Made-to-measure or RTW clothes can look good on just anybody. Whether the garment can be pinched and adjusted isn't the issue - it's simply not cut for an individual customer, but rather for an ideal, whatever that is to the maker. That works very well when you happen to be the ideal shape for a given suit. For example, SLP suits are not for large people - they fit a very specific type well, and that's it. You shop designers until you find someone whose image of an ideal is you, and then it just works.

Otherwise you get something custom made and save both the headache and expense. Buying exactly what you want and wearing it often because you love it should be the whole point. It never looks or feels right unless it actually is.

OP, I would suggest you save your money and buy the Tom Ford suit. It's what you really want.
 

Nobilis Animus

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To butcher Groucho Marx, I don't trust any designer foolish enough to consider my body any sort of ideal.
HA! Point taken, but this is why designer silhouettes and model sizes change very little, or slowly. They are designing for specific sets of people, and that's part of the appeal. People covet not just the design, but also those whom they see actually rocking the clothes.
 

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