How long do DVD players last?

[hchamp]

Originally Posted by lawyerdad

Look, if you think it's a good deal, go for it. I wouldn't, for all the reasons set forth in this post. But they aren't pushing these warranties because they're your friends.

You're assuming they'd put a lot of effort into trying to fix it. The more likely scenario is they dick around, have it sitting on a shelf, tell you they have a backlog and won't get to it for 5 weeks, etc.

You still don't get it. It costs them more than $50 just to look at it. They have to send it out to HO in another city and get some techie to spend time just to get an opinion about whether it can be fixed. This costs more than what they made on the insurance. Like I said, unless gadget is > a few hundred dollars, this store ain't gonna do that. They'll give you the credit straight up. You get your money back to buy a new machine with all the latest features. And all it cost you was the insurance. It's a LEASE. And people lease cars all the time.

 

[hchamp]

Originally Posted by Tokyo Slim

An extended warranty is a tip to your salesman, much like you would tip a waiter/waitress, nothing more. You get no actual service from purchasing it, all you are doing in reality is throwing money away. It is not insurance. The only benefit anyone ever gets from the purchase of an extended warranty is the salesman who might get anywhere from 5%-50% of whatever the cost of the warranty is on his next paycheck. If he/she was knowledgeable, didn't piss you off with his/her selling style, and actually did their job - there is nothing wrong with buying an extended warranty to thank them for their service.

Buying one because your item might break, is however, the height of idiocy. Anyone who has ever been in the sales industry can tell you the statistics of how often extended warrantys are honored. 99% of them are never even used. Out of the one percent of people who try and use their extended warranty services, about 99% of them are denied because of any of the various loopholes built into any of these contracts. If you didn't have the machine regularly cleaned and serviced for instance, and keep the records, your warranty is void, etc.

I've had mine for nearly 6 years, run a lens cleaning cd through it a couple times, and its still going strong. At an average of 8 movies a week, thats nearly 3000 cycles.

Do you have a source for all your numbers? I've had 2 experiences with warranties and both times they were honored w/o any hassles. And I doubt the extended warranty is a "tip". The money they take in in ext warranties is used to cover the cost of replacing broken gadgets covered by said warranties. What remains is a profit to the company. The salesguy's cut comes out of the retail margin. He gets a small slice. This is how the salesguy explained it to me when I bargained with him. He was willing the change the list price, but when I asked for a discount on the warranty, he said they weren't allowed do that. It was FIXED.

 

[lawyerdad]

Originally Posted by hchamp

You still don't get it. It costs them more than $50 just to look at it. They have to send it out to HO in another city and get some techie to spend time just to get an opinion about whether it can be fixed. This costs more than what they made on the insurance. Like I said, unless gadget is > a few hundred dollars, this store ain't gonna do that. They'll give you the credit straight up. You get your money back to buy a new machine with all the latest features. And all it cost you was the insurance. It's a LEASE. And people lease cars all the time.

Look, if you want to be a putz and throw your money away because you think you understand the economics of their extended warranty better than they do, then be my guest.

People do lease cars all the time. For some people it works out fine. Some people get royally screwed. But then, your use of ALL CAPS is the ultimate trump card, so I guess you must be right.

 

[hchamp]

Originally Posted by HomerJ

There's gotta be a reason the stores push the extended warranty so hard hmm, pure profit?

But the only time I ever bought an extended warranty, my first laptop which was 2k (back in the day), it sure worked out. I got it fixed twice during the 3 years I had it (total lemon), and the 3rd time they just gave me $1100 to spend in the store on any laptop. Of course 3 years later, prices had come waay down and $1100 bought a nicer laptop than the one I started with. I think this case is pretty rare and it's a waste of money most of the time but not always.

And if you hadn't had that warranty you would've been out of pocket whatever hundreds of $$ you paid for your new machine. Instead, your warranty paid for your new machine. Out of pocket expense? ZERO.

And of course the store makes money on ext warranties, otherwise they wouldn't offer them. It's the same thing as auto insurance. For most people, it proves to be a waste of money because they'll never need it. But if you ever do need it, then you're really glad you have it.

It's a calculated risk. When it pays off, it's worth it. When it doesn't, then of course, it wasn't. That's how insurance works.

BTW, if these gadgets were really so reliable, the manufacturers would feel comfortable offering warranties longer than 1 yr. That should tell you something about how well these things are made.

 

[hchamp]

Originally Posted by dirk diggler

I just had a 4 yr old dvd player die on me (well, its on life support and making a funny noise w/ a jacked up screen image) - for $50 or less, it can be replaced.

If you had a warranty, it wouldn't cost you anything. And if you still wanted to spend $50, together with the full credit, you'd be able to upgrade to a better, more expensive machine with more features.

 

[hchamp]

Originally Posted by lawyerdad

Look, if you want to be a putz and throw your money away because you think you understand the economics of their extended warranty better than they do, then be my guest.

People do lease cars all the time. For some people it works out fine. Some people get royally screwed. But then, your use of ALL CAPS is the ultimate trump card, so I guess you must be right.

Except for the newer machines with the latest features, the premiums are assessed as the same flat rate on all machines. Yet, not every make and model will have the same "mean time to failure", to use an industry term. So if you buy a machine that is more likely to have problems sooner, then you are actually buying their insurance at a discount, since you've shifted the odds in your favor. It's like a smoker buying life insurance at the same rate as a non-smoker. It's a bargain for him, and a rip-off the non-smoker.

(Then there is always the fact that there are things you can do to your machine to accelerate the mtf and tip the odds even further in your favor! The salesguy actually joked about this!)

So the economics of extended warranties can be gamed. The consumer electronics business is not very sophisticated when compared to companies who offer traditional protection.

 

[Tokyo Slim]

Originally Posted by hchamp

Do you have a source for all your numbers? I've had 2 experiences with warranties and both times they were honored w/o any hassles. And I doubt the extended warranty is a "tip". The money they take in in ext warranties is used to cover the cost of replacing broken gadgets covered by said warranties. What remains is a profit to the company. The salesguy's cut comes out of the retail margin. He gets a small slice. This is how the salesguy explained it to me when I bargained with him. He was willing the change the list price, but when I asked for a discount on the warranty, he said they weren't allowed do that. It was FIXED.
My source for my numbers is my years of experience in retail sales and retail management, including electronics, computers, home appliances, and etc. At least half of Best Buy's annual operating costs come from extended warranty profit. Nearly all of Circuit City's does. (circuit city is one of the few retailers that don't SPIF or compensate their salespeople for ESP sales) Extended warrantys are a 15-20 billion dollar a year business. According to the last ESP sales figures I saw (2005-ish) on average, industry wide, for every extended service plan dollar made, only about 15 cents ever finds it way back into any sort of repair or replacement of the consumer's item. Salespeople more often than not get a SPIF percentage of every extended warranty sold. How much depends on the company, occasionally the seniority, and many times how many warrantys are sold on some sort of progressive incentive scale. Are you aware that quite a few credit card companies match the warranty of purchased goods (up to a year) for free? That means that if your DVD player has a year Manufacturers warranty, and you purchase it with ANY AMEX card, Visa Signature, or Mastercard Gold/Platinum or World card, you are already covered for two years. If you purchase a three year extended warranty, you are paying for two years of coverage you don't need because you are already covered. Unless you are purchasing an exorbitantly expensive item, or an item prone to breakage, (a DVD player is neither, BTW) it literally makes zero financial sense to purchase an extended warranty. High end home appliances, plasma tv's, laptop pc's and etc. might be worth it, but a DVD player? Again, the fine print on the extended (or really ANY) warranty is not your friend. How would you define normal wear and tear or routine maintenance? I assure you that there is a hard definition for it found in your warranty contract, and many times it is patently ridiculous. According to Consumer Reports, the following items that you can buy extended warrantys for are the only ones that have more than a ten percent chance of needing a repair in the first three years. This of course, included accidents, irregular wear and tear, and etc. I'm inclined to say that MOST of it falls under non-warranty issues, since in the past 5 years or so, consumer electronics quality ratings are the highest in history. Your dvd player, under normal use, will last you longer than your dvd collection will be relevant. Product/Repair Rate (%) Desktop PC/37% Laptop PC/33% Lawn tractor and riding mower/29% Refrigerator:side-by-side (with icemaker and dispenser)/28% Self-propelled mower/26% Washing machine/22% Gas range/19% Refrigerator: top and bottom freezer (with icemaker)/17% Projection TV/16% Push mower/15% Vacuum cleaner (excluding belt replacement)/13% Dishwasher/13% Clothes dryer/13% Microwave over (over-the-range)/%12 Electric range/11% The percentage of above items failing while under manufacturers warranty - including failure out of the box is much higher than the chance of it failing in the second or third year you own it. It might BREAK during the second or third year, but that, of course, is not covered under your warranty. Most extended warrantys don't cover wear and tear, accidents, or acts of god. Only manufacturer defects. What are the chances of your DVD player being defective for two years, and you never noticing it?

 

[lawyerdad]

Originally Posted by hchamp

(Then there is always the fact that there are things you can do to your machine to accelerate the mtf and tip the odds even further in your favor! The salesguy actually joked about this!)


Yeah, he clearly gave you the inside scoop because he has your best interests at heart. Knock yourself out.

 

[hchamp]

Originally Posted by Tokyo Slim

According to Consumer Reports, the following items that you can buy extended warrantys for are the only ones that have more than a ten percent chance of needing a repair in the first three years. This of course, included accidents, irregular wear and tear, and etc. I'm inclined to say that MOST of it falls under non-warranty issues, since in the past 5 years or so, consumer electronics quality ratings are the highest in history. Your dvd player, under normal use, will last you longer than your dvd collection will be relevant.

Product/Repair Rate (%)

Desktop PC/37%
Laptop PC/33%
Lawn tractor and riding mower/29%
Refrigerator:side-by-side (with icemaker and dispenser)/28%
Self-propelled mower/26%
Washing machine/22%
Gas range/19%
Refrigerator: top and bottom freezer (with icemaker)/17%
Projection TV/16%
Push mower/15%
Vacuum cleaner (excluding belt replacement)/13%
Dishwasher/13%
Clothes dryer/13%
Microwave over (over-the-range)/%12
Electric range/11%

The percentage of above items failing while under manufacturers warranty - including failure out of the box is much higher than the chance of it failing in the second or third year you own it. It might BREAK during the second or third year, but that, of course, is not covered under your warranty. Most extended warrantys don't cover wear and tear, accidents, or acts of god. Only manufacturer defects. What are the chances of your DVD player being defective for two years, and you never noticing it?

the consumers' report figures are interesting. do you have the number for dvd players? thanks.

i think it depends on the warranty. the one being offered covers normal wear and tear, including accidents, and not just manufacturer's defects. the point is that if the machine stops working, for whatever reason, the costs of repair are covered under the warranty. if it can't be fixed, they will replace it, giving you full credit.

 

[hchamp]

Originally Posted by lawyerdad

Yeah, he clearly gave you the inside scoop because he has your best interests at heart. Knock yourself out.

i think he was simply relaying his experience with some people he knew who had deliberately damaged their players in order to qualify for an exchange. it's always a minority of people who do this, but again, the costs to this store of ferreting out the cheaters isn't worth it. so, if anything, i think he was being quite candid.

salespeople can do that when it suits them.

 

[Tokyo Slim]

Originally Posted by hchamp

the consumers' report figures are interesting. do you have the number for dvd players? thanks.

No, the figures stop at 5%... DVD players are under this and didn't qualify.

 

[Joffrey]

Maybe I missed this but how much is the ext. warranty for the dvd player? And how much is this dvd player you're buying? If its $150 or less I wouldn't bother. BUt really, consumer electronics (except some computers) rarely fail.

By the way I was listening to a personal finance radio show a few months back and the guy said to almost never buy extended warranties. One should use a credit card for the purchase as the card company doubles the warranty on the product.

Anyway I bought an extra warranty for my laptop but it was almost $2k

 

[Tokyo Slim]

Originally Posted by hchamp

i think it depends on the warranty. the one being offered covers normal wear and tear, including accidents, and not just manufacturer's defects. the point is that if the machine stops working, for whatever reason, the costs of repair are covered under the warranty. if it can't be fixed, they will replace it, giving you full credit.
I've never heard of such a generous offer. First off, what is normal wear and tear as defined by your contract, are you going to be able to use this dvd player more than once a month? Second, it covers accidents? If you drop your dvd player in the bathtub, or hit it with a sledgehammer, they will just replace it? Somehow I doubt it. Where is this magical fairy land of consumer friendliness that you are shopping at? I demand to read the fine print of this warranty before I discuss this with you any further since this is so far outside industry standard, something must be grievously wrong, as no company would be dumb enough to throw money away like that.

 

[hchamp]

I was looking at models ranging from $100 to $300. The 4 yr ext war is about a third of list. Below about $150, it isn't cost-effective for the store to even look at the doohicky. Above that I think they will. Funny enough, I'm told the newer, more expensive models are actually more prone to fail.

I didn't buy anything, so I don't have the "fine print" in front of me. But I know someone who did buy an ext war and he actually returned his gadget on the last day of the warranty and walked out with his credit same day. The tray on his player refused to slide out. He said they just plugged the thing in to check out his story. No further questions were asked.

 

[Joffrey]

So are you going to get the warranty? From what i've read it looks like you want it.