1. And... we're back. You'll notice that all of your images are back as well, as are our beloved emoticons, including the infamous :foo: We have also worked with our server folks and developers to fix the issues that were slowing down the site.

    There is still work to be done - the images in existing sigs are not yet linked, for example, and we are working on a way to get the images to load faster - which will improve the performance of the site, especially on the pages with a ton of images, and we will continue to work diligently on that and keep you updated.


    Fok on behalf of the entire Styleforum team
    Dismiss Notice

How long did it take you to transition to heeding MC advice?

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by SirGrotius, Aug 27, 2012.

  1. SirGrotius

    SirGrotius Senior member

    Jan 23, 2011
    I'm the typical SW&D, noob guy in the sense that I found SF, ignored most of the MC advice, and loaded up on Prada, Dior suits (because they were the "best" of the fashion brands), etc.

    Two years later and I just received one of my Dior suits back from the tailor and while it has that look, it's not perfect for me. The arms don't lay just right (ironically, they did prior to being tailored shorter), the length is probably still .5 inches too long (believe it or not), and the silhouette is so dropped it's like a mix between RLBL and well a woman's suit. On top of that, the pants are not perfect.

    I gave MTM or Custom (in the Napoli sense of the word) a look recently but was a little scared off by:

    • While I don't mind dropping $2.5K on a fashion suit, $6K+ is still an eye opener for me. I can afford it, it's just a "change"
    • Worries that the tailors would not "get" it, and I'd come back with a giant, boxy suit with a 12" pants rise and 9" leg opening
    • Confusion about what would be best for my body type, e.g., I'm soft shouldered (euphemism for no shoulders), so figured I should do something with more structure, but if I went that route it looked too severe, and if I went the direction which I thought was cooler, Napoli (loved the Madison ave store), I was worried that the lack of canvassing or shoulder pads would be bad for my small frame

    So, how long before you made the leap, and did you ever regret?

    (As a microcosm, got my first pair of Lobbs after flirting with many other types of shoes and can't look back now.)
  2. lee_44106

    lee_44106 Senior member

    Jul 19, 2006
    the Zoo
    I can't find that graphic, but you need to

  3. xMaximex

    xMaximex Well-Known Member

    Jan 30, 2010
    I was like you at first, even though I still don't post a lot, I lurk a lot. I was initially on Superfuture / SW&D - but my job required that I dressed better. Hence, I lurked from time to others on MC, and in less than 6 months, I haven't looked back. It happened two years ago; nowadays, I don't get my old "swag". The transition went slowly from hightops to Redwing boots to Alden to Vass. Good luck!

  4. clapeyron

    clapeyron Senior member

    Feb 10, 2012
  5. tobiasj

    tobiasj Senior member

    Dec 6, 2010
    Melbourne, Australia
    SW&D posters realising the error of their ways and coming home. This makes me tear up.
  6. Mox C

    Mox C Senior member

    Jun 10, 2012
    Rochester, NY
    I'm fairly new to the board, but I migrated to MC and ignored SW&D right off the bat. That's probably because I'm 44. I'm not a fuddy-duddy, but I've been around long enough to see fashion swing from one extreme to another. When you are young, fashion can be new, fresh, and important. For me, it's like watching a dog chase its tail.

    I'm not a big fan of the word "conservative", as it sounds so cautious and staid to me, but I do prefer a more middle-of-the-road classic style. Daring to be classic while being pushed to convert to the current trend can be more individualistic than following the masses. You don't have to go full-on retro and there are ways to make your mark.

    I personally think there is little to regret about going classic. You won't be on the bleeding edge of fashion (many would say that's a good thing), but classic is always in style.
  7. poorsod

    poorsod Senior member

    Apr 13, 2005

    Where are you finding the $6k+ suit? Or are you talking about the new Attolini store on Madison? Their custom suit aren't worth it to me - they only do a forward fitting (at best) and then the alterations are done locally. For that $6k+ price you can get real bespoke from Rubinacci, Huntsman or Maurice Sedwell. You can find cheaper options from Chan, NSM or Steed (ranging from $1.5k to $3-4k).

    Regarding Lobb, are you talking about RTW or bespoke?

    As to your other questions, it seems obvious that you have a lot of MC to read and to learn.
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2012
  8. bourbonbasted

    bourbonbasted Senior member

    Apr 27, 2011
    Beyond the obvious "lurk moar" comment, which, to be honest, is always the answer since no one on the MC side of things really knows what they pretend to know (pardon a few members), I think what you need to realize is that you are about to undergo a shift in thinking.

    Pardon my sweeping generalizations or hackneyed ignorance here, but the mentality of SW&D and MC is vastly different. That does not mean one is better or one is proper. They are just different.

    The issues that you felt made you nervous regarding bespoke are very typical. Even those with the most money to spend do not walk into a tailor's shop and come out immediately with exactly what they want. Instead, the bespoke (or even MTM) process is one of trial and error. You decide what you like, what works best for you, the details that keep things interesting, etc. Your passion and the hunt for the perfect fit keep you running like a junky. And all the way there is your dealer tailor to be your guide and keep you in line. You will go through a ton of commissions before you settle on something you really like. And then, as soon as you have the default/conservative arena covered, you strike out into goofy shit to keep from being bored.

    To me, this is the biggest difference between SW&D and MC. In MC the ideal (for better or for worse) is the bespoke process. Having garments made for you, to your exact specifications, gives those of us who slave over the details a great deal of satisfaction. While there are a number of custom avenues in the SW&D world (or just street wear scene in general), there is no ultimate step that involves complete customization of everything. Instead there is a lot more prepackaged style and highly designed brands/items that require a great deal of understanding. Yet, at the end of the day, they are still not your creations.

    Before you jump into bespoke you need to start realizing and appreciating the finer details of tailored items. Things like pocket configurations, stitching, hand finishing, button stance, fabric selections, lapel details, etc, etc are all things you should start paying attention to. I guarantee, aside from overall fit, if you compare the details of the Dior piece you mentioned with any of the WAYW greatest hits, you'll see a number of things pop out. It's not easy to get this right away, and you'll see that you miss a ton of shit that the MC nerd crowd will be quick to jump on. But again, it's a process. You need to first see the details. Then understand why they are there (or why they shouldn't be there). And then appreciate why you think they are cool or terrible.

    From this basic point you can move into more complex areas like the formality of certain fabrics, occasions for certain styles, texture and combinations, etc etc. However, attempting to create an eye for the detail before jumping in feet first will save you a shit ton of time, money and frustration. Especially when you are coming from a completely different mindset.

    Once you have an understanding of what goes into dressing "correctly" (I put this in quotations because what is correct is completely subjective, learned and earned over time, and in no way dictated by what people post on this forum), then you can begin to look at things on a more personal level. Get an idea of your proportions. See what you think could be improved by structure, what should be left soft, etc. A tailor is your greatest ally here, but you'll know you have a good idea what you're getting into if you can look in the mirror and spot obvious flaws in OTR garments. Again, this only comes from doing your due diligence.

    It's funny that the title of your thread alludes to "when" you make the shift in thinking. In reality, it should be "how" you make the shift in your thinking. As you observe and learn you'll soon realize that there is no on and off switch. You'll carry over ideas that you like from SW&D. You'll create new ideas based on what you see here. The combination of these will make for your style. And that's what's at the heart of it. Being here isn't about thinking in terms of MC or in terms of SW&D. It's about thinking in terms of your style.
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2012
    3 people like this.
  9. Hayward

    Hayward Senior member

    Jul 31, 2011
    So the only thing I've taken from this forum is to size down on some items and wear brown shoes more often. The tailoring stuff is interesting, as is seeing other people's tastes. It can also be amusing to see some posters defend their personal taste as some sort of universal standard.
  10. Makoto Chan

    Makoto Chan Senior member

    Oct 10, 2010
    Different people come here with different mentalities, and different budgets. Also they "make the leap" from different starting points. I'm shocked that he thinks he needs to buy $6K suits and John Lobb shoes. It sounds like he wants to transition from the best brands in SW&D to the best brands in MC. Is that right? Because, you could look totally great in an MC kinda way, if you had a real basic wardrobe (which you can search for), some good shoes at a much lower price point than Lobb, and a few tailored OTR or MTM suits and jackets. I think it's generally a pretty utilitarian (and satisfying) pursuit for a "beginner."
    1 person likes this.
  11. md2010

    md2010 Senior member

    Jul 11, 2011
    Lol . You must be a cash money baller. I am yet to drop $2.5k on a suit. I am sure you will get it right if you are prepared to spend $6k on a suit.
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2012
  12. JensenH

    JensenH Senior member

    Aug 13, 2009
    Between Berserkeley and Freaksco
    Been a member for a while, but never drank the MC Kool-aid. I still dress the way I like -- classic style but with some flair.
  13. Petepan

    Petepan Senior member

    Apr 27, 2012
    Every person says they dress classic with some flair. What exactly does that mean?
  14. Caustic Man

    Caustic Man Senior member

    Apr 17, 2012
    lol I was thinking the same thing but I didn't want to say anything.
  15. celery

    celery Senior member

    Nov 3, 2007
    See peacock thread.
  16. Pliny

    Pliny Senior member

    Oct 26, 2009
    We all seem to go thru stages where we experiment and make a lot of mistakes. I know that I look back on many of my earlier items and fits and think 'what possessed me to buy that garish orange/spotty/shiny tie? why did I put striped formal pants with an odd tweed jacket? etc'

    If I had my time over I'd start by acquiring a full set of basics- cf the 'what a well-dressed man must have in his wardrobe' thread started by Manton a week or two ago.
    Lots of plains and solids in the best materials I could afford, and focus on fit and texture rather than color. Understated and elegant rather than trying to find 'signature' items that in the end just don't really go with anything . Now I'd go for items that on their own may seem boring but are versatile basic elements in a variety of fits. MTM or bespoke, whenever possible, for better fit, and on the theory that a few very good items are better than dozens of average ones.
    I'd avoid excess of any kind. No really wide or narrow lapels or exceptionally fitted waists in jackets. No extreme spread collars on shirts, and stick to basic blue, cream, white (and maybe a pink) shirts in herringbone or end-on-end or oxford cloth. A navy and a gray summer suit, and a navy and a gray winter suit and a fawn linen. A couple of plain tweed jackets in blue and gray herringbone. Hand-made black oxfords, a Norweger, a scotch-grain derby, a burgundy wingtip in red-brown, something in suede and a PTB. Quality blue and gray vertical stripe and plain socks. Ties in linen or cashmere,in navy and black and for color a couple of silk challis and macclefields and PSs for flair.
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2012
  17. RDiaz

    RDiaz Senior member

    Nov 12, 2011
    I try to follow advice by reputed members here (to the extent that my often tight budget allows) since the beginning, because I want my style to be as classic as possible. I am not really interested in breaking the "rules", or adding "modern twists" when dressing. If I break the rules it's because I'm still far from knowing them. I'd prefer trying to be creative within those limits.
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2012
  18. kulata

    kulata Senior member

    Nov 13, 2008
    Bespoke, made to measure, and ready to wear. Just buy what best fits you and suits your personal style, that will develop with time. Not all the advice you get here is useful and $6k bespoke doesn't guarantee a better look than $800 ready to wear. Start slow and pay attention.
  19. FlyingMonkey

    FlyingMonkey Senior member

    Sep 5, 2011
    Sorry, but why, when you are already paying $2.5K on a fashion suit, would the natural thing be to pay $6K for bespoke? It seems to me that you have still got some learning to do.

    You can get full bespoke for $2.5K no problem in most major cities - and really good bespoke too. This is more than people like Graham Browne in London charge. And you can get really excellent semi-bespoke from people like Cad and the Dandy for $1.5K. And neither will force you into choices you don't want or make you have a boxy suit.

    What I've learned from MC is that, whatever your style, it's about 1. fit; 2. understanding how to combine materials, colours and textures*. Bespoke doesn't necessarily have any part to play (if you are lucky enough that you have a fairly standard body shape, or you find a particular maker whose stuff fits you). However, for me, MTM and bespoke are almost essential for MC-type coats and jackets because of my particular body-shape - I am just in between standard sizes in incompatible ways.

    * Actually, SW&D fundamentally isn't so different to this, it just doesn't derive its inspirations from the rules of classic gentlemen's clothing. This means that the context is different, so fit can mean, for example, a deliberate aesthetic decision to wear stuff that's designed to be worn oversized. It's still about fit though: you can't just wear an oversized conventionally tailored suit and hope it looks like Yohji Yamamato. It doesn't work. The materials involved are also of a much wider range, for example, manmade fibres aren't looked down on intrinsically the same extent - it's more about what they do and how they are used, not what they are or whether the maker has a century-old tradition.

    So I've actually learned as much from SW&D here as I have from MC (and actually from a small number of particular people in each forum). What I don't do anymore is try to mix everything up and think that it works or that eclectism is a good form of rule-breaking in itself - and this is perhaps the biggest lesson I've learned from the forum as a whole. I now tend to keep to either (approximately) MC or SW&D norms at any one time - although that doesn't mean there aren't some pieces of clothing I have that can work in either context. Oh, and I'm in my 40s. I don't see why getting older should mean that you have to 'chose a side' or turn conservative.
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2012
    1 person likes this.
  20. KObalto

    KObalto Senior member

    Mar 22, 2008
    Napoli is a store? I thought it was a city? If you are dropping that kind of cash, have you checked out the NYC bespoke tailors, Logsdall, Ercole, etc.?

Share This Page

Styleforum is proudly sponsored by