How does bespoke differ from MTM? ...

[cmeisenzahl]

Thanks for putting up w/ my questions. ;-)

 

[fcuknu]

with bespoke you choose everything that goes into the garment, the cut, the trimmings, the fabric, et cetera. With MTM the suit is already speced out, they just make it to your measurments.

 

[gdl203]

The pattern is drawn just for you. You can pick most if not all of the things fcuknu listed in MTM too, depending on the program, but they use existing patterns which they alter to your measurements.

 

[polar-lemon]

bespoke should have a pattern made for you, MTM is altering an existing pattern

 

[Twotone]

For bespoke, they make a pattern based upon your measurements. MTM uses a close-fit pattern with appropriate adjustments based upon your measurements. The end results may or may not vary. Bespoke require more time and effort and most often costs significantly more than MTM.

Twotone

 

[fcuknu]

yeah, I guess I was more so referring to vendor MTM, where you have to use their fabrics and trimmings and such.

 

[Modernist]

IMO the main difference is the fitting process. In MTM they just get your measurements and deliver a final product according to them. Perhaps they will do some minor alterations afterwards. But in bespoke the fitter is going to manipulate the fit of the yet unfinished garment while you have it on. If the tailor does his job right, that will go on until both him and you are satisfied. Everything goes, and you are the model for any adjustment.

Again IMHO the pattern comes a distant second. The fitting process, and the detailed remarks and alterations that result from it are what's important. Drawing from personal experience, I had 5 fittings with my tailors for my first suit, but only 3 (measurements to notice any changes, intermediate fitting to check on the progress and final to inspect the finalised suit) for my third order and on.

 

[kcc]

The fundamental* differences are:

1) A pattern, which uniquely reflects the nuances of your anatomy is made and modified throughout the client/tailor relationship. Typically, bespoke garments are hand cut and hand sewn or hand finished - depends on one's subjective analyses.

1a) This is not the case for MTM, which relies on standardized measurements cut by a
industrialized machine. Aspects of the garment may be hand finished, however.

2) Theoretically, bespoke offers multiple fittings, which when properly executed should result in a well fitted garment. Underscore theoretically; all tailors should oblige their clients in successive fittings until an agreeable fit is achieved, but a large majority does not. The consummate professionals, who recognize releasing an ill fitting suit can potentially tarnish his reputation, will offer multiple fittings to perfect the process.

2a) Besides Oxxford Clothing, I'm not aware of any MTM outfits that will have more than a
single expected fitting once the suit arrives.

3) Some will argue bespoke offers access to exclusive fabrics and similar resources. This is invariably true, but I've seen a few custom businesses with colossal principals in possession of the rarefied fabrics.

*Members with more experience feel free to correct these observations.

 

[Shirtmaven]

I am always amused by the attempts to define these terms.
the term bespoke has been abused by so many venders that it has no real meaning.
It is an English term. when I started in business in the 1980's the term Bespoke was never used in the states. the finest tailors who created patterns from scratch and offered multiple fittings, were just refered to as custom tailors. the same for shirtmakers.

When customers ask me if I make a bespoke or a mtm shirt, I roll my eyes, tell them they have read to many posts on the forums, and just worry about wether or not they get the garment they are looking for at the end of the process.

Many computerized pattern programs are able to make all of the corrections that a tailor can make with a hand made pattern.

 

[Reckoner]

bespoke is fit exactly to your body measurements ... whereas MTM has standardized waist, hip, sleeve length, color etc ... and then you combine it together ... MTM is more efficient to make and lower cost ...

 

[cmeisenzahl]

I see, good discussion, thanks, guys.

 

[GBR]

The essential difference is that in bespoke a paper pattern is drafted to your measurements and body figuration. This is entire;y [personal to you and is/cannot be used for anyone else. MTM uses a standard pattern against which minor amendments are made to suit you but there is considerable compromise.

Detailing of the suit is very much more flexible with bespoke despite claims to the contrary and a tailor /cutter offering bespoke will generally use your own cloth if requested (with varying grace it has to be said) something which a factory produced MTM would not accept at all.

To bespeak a suit to your requirements is the best way to go though the standard of workmanship beyond this can vary and you need to develop a relationship with your cutter to hone the pattern to your requirements. Fittings are certainly required with bespoke and whilst given with MTM have less scope for change.

 

[magogian12345]

Originally Posted by kcc

The fundamental* differences are:

1) A pattern, which uniquely reflects the nuances of your anatomy is made and modified throughout the client/tailor relationship. Typically, bespoke garments are hand cut and hand sewn or hand finished – depends on one’s subjective analyses.

1a) This is not the case for MTM, which relies on standardized measurements cut by a
industrialized machine. Aspects of the garment may be hand finished, however.

2) Theoretically, bespoke offers multiple fittings, which when properly executed should result in a well fitted garment. Underscore theoretically; all tailors should oblige their clients in successive fittings until an agreeable fit is achieved, but a large majority does not. The consummate professionals, who recognize releasing an ill fitting suit can potentially tarnish his reputation, will offer multiple fittings to perfect the process.

2a) Besides Oxxford Clothing, I’m not aware of any MTM outfits that will have more than a
single expected fitting once the suit arrives.

3) Some will argue bespoke offers access to exclusive fabrics and similar resources. This is invariably true, but I’ve seen a few custom businesses with colossal principals in possession of the rarefied fabrics.

*Members with more experience feel free to correct these observations.

Hickey Freeman has an option where they made a practice jacket out of fabrics scraps and have basted on sleeves. You try that on for fit, and then they make the actual jacket based on whatever changes are needed. Of course, they charge you $200 for this option.

 

[Sanguis Mortuum]

Originally Posted by GBR

a tailor /cutter offering bespoke will generally use your own cloth if requested (with varying grace it has to be said) something which a factory produced MTM would not accept at all.

There are certainly a few MTM outfits that will use your own cloth...

 

[TheFoo]

Originally Posted by GBR

The essential difference is that in bespoke a paper pattern is drafted to your measurements and body figuration. This is entirely personal to you and is/cannot be used for anyone else. MTM uses a standard pattern against which minor amendments are made to suit you but there is considerable compromise.

Per my understanding, this is essentially the correct answer. However, I would add two things: (1) a bespoke tailor might still work off of a block pattern or use a computer to draft something rather than produce a paper pattern, and (2) extensive changes to the default pattern are possible in MTM.

So for me, the disadvantage of a really adaptable, top-of-the-line MTM program like Oxxford's is not that they can't make drastic enough changes from pre-existing templates, but that they can't make changes as nuanced as what a skilled bespoke tailor could do.

Then there is the issue of factory production, which is typical of MTM. When you've got so many different hands working on the same suit, it's easier for something to get lost in translation between your fitting and the final product. In my opinion, that's why MTM programs that offer basted fittings still have trouble matching really great bespoke.