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the legendary, extinct, unlined Brooks Brothers OCBD collar.
That's disappointing. You guys think the roll isn't really about the roll, but the collar's proclivity toward rolliness?
Regardless of how things came to be, I think we do idealize different shapes of roll. After all, virtually any buttondown--lined or not--will take on some sort of rolled shape.
There is no ideal roll. I've got a nice collection of Golden Age Brooks Brothers OCBDs with unlined collars, and as you said, they all roll a bit differently depending on a variety of factors (being ironed, amount of starch, time of day, tightness of tie knot). The magic of those collars is NOT that they provided a specific roll, but that they were soft and unlined, reflecting the casual insouciance of the Ivy League elite who made them fashionable. Somehow this has been reversed in the #menswear world, and now the roll itself is worshipped, rather than the soft and unlined collar which made the roll. If you have to add some structure to your collar to get the correct roll, you are doing it wrong. Those old BB collars were alive, changing with the wearer. A collar which stays permanently at the "correct" roll is anathema to the true Brooks Brothers collar.
That it looks really bad..?Though, there is something to be said about a non-ideal roll.
There is no ideal roll. I've got a nice collection of Golden Age Brooks Brothers OCBDs with unlined collars, and as you said, they all roll a bit differently depending on a variety of factors (being ironed, amount of starch, time of day, tightness of tie knot). The magic of those collars is NOT that they provided a specific roll, but that they were soft and unlined, reflecting the casual insouciance of the Ivy League elite who made them fashionable. Somehow this has been reversed in the #menswear world, and now the roll itself is worshipped, rather than the soft and unlined collar which made the roll. If you have to add some structure to your collar to get the correct roll, you are doing it wrong. Those old BB collars were alive, changing with the wearer. A collar which stays permanently at the "correct" roll is anathema to the true Brooks Brothers collar.
None of them, where's the roll?I don't wear a tie with my BD collars but I like them to stand as tall and crisply as possible with a sharp roll at the top. This is a Ben Silver but I have others that do this to a similar extent as well that I am required to wear to work daily, sans tie, of course.
Tell me what number this represents in the poll and I'll cast a vote.
It's all about the attitude? Come on, guys. That is such a lame cop-out. It wouldn't be a good explanation in virtually any other context, and it isn't here.
After all, you don't need a vintage Brooks Brothers OCBD through which to express attitude. Any floppy, unlined collar will do. However, a pleasing roll is not a given. I have a one of the much vaunted Mercer OCBDs with an unlined, soft collar. Guess what? The roll sucks. I won't say how, as that would reveal my preferences. But it is terrible, and it has nothing to with attitude.
None of them, where's the roll?