How consistent must one really be in terms of formality when wearing a suit?

[lullemans72]

Ever since I started educating myself more on the exciting world of fashion and expanding my wardrobe,
I began to ask myself just how important it is to have absolute consistency in the formality of one's clothes?
I'm specifically talking about dressing up in a suit for work.

For example, if I were to wear my black quarter brogues/derbies, does that mean that I couldn't wear it with a white shirt, because white is more formal than the brogue derbies?
And does that also mean that I couldn't wear a knit tie with a white dress shirt since the nature of the knit tie is less formal than the white shirt? Or, if I wore a blue shirt along with my suit, would that exclude me from wearing them together with my black cap toe oxfords since the latter is more formal than the blue shirt? What if I wore a button down dress shirt, but with black oxfords?

These are all very small details, and you might be sitting here thinking that I'm way overthinking this, but it's really just something I haven't had the chance to get any opinions on.
My assumption is that most people in general won't notice or care much if you're wearing one piece of clothing that is higher on the formality spectrum than another piece of clothing of the same outfit, but perhaps the true style purists would say that a combination like oxfords, white shirts and knit ties are a fashion tragedy?

Keen on knowing what people's stance is on this. On a side note, I think I've read a thread in the past (don't remember if it was SF) about how button down dress shirts were seen as acceptable in the US, but a total no no in the more conservative UK, so it's for that I wanted to know how people generally feel about this.

Cheers

 

[thesilentist]



... you might be sitting here thinking that I'm way overthinking this [...] My assumption is that most people in general won't notice or care much ...

It's great you're learning all the rules and levels of formality, but I can assure you that nobody will care and whether that's something you want to obsess over is entirely up to you.

 

[SilverLaker]

I don't agree that white is necessarily formal, depending on the fabric and cut of a shirt it can span the whole gamut from very formal to totally relaxed. And a blue shirt can look very formal if worn with a suit and tie that elevates the formality.

Don't fret about "rules". What matters is that the outfit is well composed. A pair of well maintained black oxfords can go with anything from jeans to a banker's suit, if worn confidently. And 99% of men don't even know the difference between oxfords and derbys anyway (even most retailers will sell derbys as "oxford laceups"...). Focus on making sure that the colors and fabrics complement each other and look good, not on grades of formality.

 

[lullemans72]

Silentist and silverlaker, thanks for the replies. Of course it's not something I want to needlessly fret about. Given your answers it seems that this is indeed not something that most people pay attention to anyway.

And thanks, silverlaker for mentioning about how even white shirts can differ greatly. In fact, I'll go ahead and post a couple of photos of what I was specifically talking about

So this is my work outfit the other day. Would you say that knit tie was appropriate with that style of shirt?

This is a button down collar with a silk tie with double texture.

 

[maxalex]

Personally I only wear button-down collars without a tie, and only with Oxford cloth. If the collar is frayed, even better. To me it's a weekend look. If you are trying to look like a Midwestern Republican congressman, by all means forge ahead with the tie.

 

[lullemans72]

Ah, I've heard the comparison with politicians before. However, I don't live in the US, so I'm not sure that would really apply to me. Here in Japan, I see quite a lot of people wear ties with button downs, so I kind of gave myself an excuse to try it too. I will say that I try to pair the tie with the blue buttons on the color so there isn't too much color clash.

 

[thesilentist]

I wear knit ties with suits exclusively when I travel. Simple to pack, no worries about them getting wrinkled or creased. Otherwise, I generally wear them only with sport coats.

I've gone back and forth wearing OCBDs with suits. As much as I enjoy the cloth, I can't say it's going to look the best with worsted wool suiting. Agreed it looks very midwestern politician, which isn't exactly a good thing (being a midwesterner who used to work for politicians).

FWIW, I don't like the contrast stitching on the button-down collar shirt you have. Wouldn't wear that in a formal environment.

Overall, I would say you will probably look the best when you keep all the items in your outfit of a similar level of formality. Getting "creative" often is where people go astray.

 

[johng70]

To me it's less about the shirt than it is tie vs. suit. Knit ties are much less formal to me - definitely more of a casual look. I wouldn't expect to see one paired with a business suit, but that's just me. You're also going to find that white and blue are the two staple shirts people wear. Because they're so flexible. So, you will see those colors across the whole spectrum of formality.

 

[Vuchko]

And does that also mean that I couldn't wear a knit tie with a white dress shirt since the nature of the knit tie is less formal than the white shirt? Or, if I wore a blue shirt along with my suit, would that exclude me from wearing them together with my black cap toe oxfords since the latter is more formal than the blue shirt? What if I wore a button down dress shirt, but with black oxfords?

In my view, it is certainly bad if the outfit looks incongruous in terms of formality. However, the relevant aspect of "formality" here is not what category things fall into under some kind of theoretical classification, but rather how they're designed in terms of materials, colors, patterns, textures, and shapes.

For example, in theory derby shoes are less formal than oxfords. But in practice, a pair of sleek, thin-soled, well-polished derbies will look perfectly fine with even the most delicate and formal suit, and will probably look much better than more rugged and less sleek oxfords. (And the latter might well be a better match for a more casual outfit.)

This is something one just has to develop a feeling for. In general, sleeker shapes, more muted, conservative, and uniform colors, thinner materials, less textured surfaces, lack of visible stitches, all usually mean a more "formal" look. But there are no fixed rules and ultimately it's a matter of good aesthetic judgment.

(With all this in mind, a dotted knit tie does strike me as incongruous with a conservative grey business suit.)

 

[DesB3rd]

"ultimately it's a matter of good aesthetic judgment."

This sentiment is sound; above a certain threshold business wear is something of a free for all these days. In any business setting no one would think less of wingtips than oxfords, nor woul a pale blue be less than a white shirt; it's really only when you start stepping meaningfully away from the rules (outre suit colours, patterns on patterns, etc) that the potential for faux pas arises.

 

[lullemans72]

I wear knit ties with suits exclusively when I travel. Simple to pack, no worries about them getting wrinkled or creased. Otherwise, I generally wear them only with sport coats.

I've gone back and forth wearing OCBDs with suits. As much as I enjoy the cloth, I can't say it's going to look the best with worsted wool suiting. Agreed it looks very midwestern politician, which isn't exactly a good thing (being a midwesterner who used to work for politicians).

FWIW, I don't like the contrast stitching on the button-down collar shirt you have. Wouldn't wear that in a formal environment.

Overall, I would say you will probably look the best when you keep all the items in your outfit of a similar level of formality. Getting "creative" often is where people go astray.

About the contrast stitching on the pink shirt, I actually agree with you. I wasn't 100% into this shirt to begin with, but I decided to give it a shot for the sake of experimentation. And like you, I wouldn't wear this during important meetings at work, but only on the off days. This shirt does serve its purpose well when I'm wearing it with more casual v-necks I must add.

As for getting creative, I think one needs to do a bit of experimentation along the way in order to really get a more profound understanding of what works and what doesn't (that, and getting feedback from you knowledgeable gentlemen on this fine forum

)

To me it's less about the shirt than it is tie vs. suit. Knit ties are much less formal to me - definitely more of a casual look. I wouldn't expect to see one paired with a business suit, but that's just me. You're also going to find that white and blue are the two staple shirts people wear. Because they're so flexible. So, you will see those colors across the whole spectrum of formality.

Good piece of advice, thanks. I'll start paying more attention to the tie and the suit instead of the shirt alone.

 

[lullemans72]

To me it's less about the shirt than it is tie vs. suit. Knit ties are much less formal to me - definitely more of a casual look. I wouldn't expect to see one paired with a business suit, but that's just me. You're also going to find that white and blue are the two staple shirts people wear. Because they're so flexible. So, you will see those colors across the whole spectrum of formality.

Good piece of advice, thanks. I'll start paying more attention to the tie and the suit instead of the shirt alone.

 

[lullemans72]

In my view, it is certainly bad if the outfit looks incongruous in terms of formality. However, the relevant aspect of "formality" here is not what category things fall into under some kind of theoretical classification, but rather how they're designed in terms of materials, colors, patterns, textures, and shapes.

For example, in theory derby shoes are less formal than oxfords. But in practice, a pair of sleek, thin-soled, well-polished derbies will look perfectly fine with even the most delicate and formal suit, and will probably look much better than more rugged and less sleek oxfords. (And the latter might well be a better match for a more casual outfit.)

This is something one just has to develop a feeling for. In general, sleeker shapes, more muted, conservative, and uniform colors, thinner materials, less textured surfaces, lack of visible stitches, all usually mean a more "formal" look. But there are no fixed rules and ultimately it's a matter of good aesthetic judgment.

(With all this in mind, a dotted knit tie does strike me as incongruous with a conservative grey business suit.)

Right, I totally see what you mean here that it's less about what it's like in theory and more what it actually looks like. Great to know.
I think I'm still in the process of developing that good judgement you speak of. But very much I'm enjoying this process. (and FWIW, the shirt in the picture with the grey suit was made of a thicker cotton fabric than the other shirt I own, and it was also slightly textured). One question though: does my grey pin-striped suit really look that formal? I thought that grey, while formal to a certain extent, was also a bit of a neutral, all-round color that could go well with almost anything, especially given the stripes on it.

 

[Makoto Chan]

I see you're in Japan, where the "rules" and context are a bit different, although generally in the stricter or more codified direction. Your pinstripe suit is definitely "formal." In my opinion it's not best suited to a dotted knit (quite casual) tie, but if you wear it well, that's great. There are slobbier dressers all around you.

 

[Vuchko]

Right, I totally see what you mean here that it's less about what it's like in theory and more what it actually looks like. Great to know.
I think I'm still in the process of developing that good judgement you speak of. But very much I'm enjoying this process. (and FWIW, the shirt in the picture with the grey suit was made of a thicker cotton fabric than the other shirt I own, and it was also slightly textured). One question though: does my grey pin-striped suit really look that formal? I thought that grey, while formal to a certain extent, was also a bit of a neutral, all-round color that could go well with almost anything, especially given the stripes on it.

Grey pinstripe certainly looks very businesslike. If people see you wearing it outside the workplace, they might well think that you came straight from the office without changing. (I don't mean to say that wearing it outside of work is a faux pas, but it does have strong associations with business.)

Note this doesn't mean exactly the same as "formality." There are different kinds of formality scales for business and social settings. You shouldn't categorize clothing on a single "formality" scale; there is always additional context needed to determine what's appropriate to wear in a given situation and what looks good together.