Hong Kong Tailor- Empire Int'l Tailors- Help with the fit of my suit

[robetrw006]

Ok, I'm new here, so please bear with me. I've been reading threads for a month or so (mostly HK tailor threads), but this is my first post. I'm not really sure of the rules of posting, so I'm probably going to leave some pretty basic things out, if so, please accept my apologies in advance...



So, I moved to HK almost a year ago. I knew about the famed HK tailors so I planned on getting a suit made. This worked especially nice since I am an exchange student and this is my final year; job hunting is in the very near future for me. I want to look my best and not spend a complete fortune on a suit(W.W. Chan, Ascot Chang, etc.), so after doing a lot of research I settled on either Simpson Sin Tailors or Empire Int'l Tailors, both in TST.

I stopped at Sin first because he was my first choice. I told myself I wouldn't go over my 4,000HKD budget. A basic suit from Sin was just over the 4k I was planning on spending. Add the extra 300HKD for canvassing and it was not a price I was willing to pay. I stopped at Empire Int'l next. They had a few suit packages that were very tempting (I had a friend with me who was also interested in a suit). I ended up splitting the middle package(of 3 available) with my buddy: 2 suits, 4 shirts, 4 ties for about 9,000HKD(if I remember correctly). A little over budget, but I was happy to get free canvassing, other specifics I mentioned for free, as well as 2 shirts.

I am fairly happy with the quality. Nothing that blows me away, but nicely made stuff. I'm actually quite happy with the shirts, but the suit is lacking. I had it fitted 3 or 4 times and finally took it home with the intention of sleeping on it, and continuing to try it on and look at it in an attempt to figure out why I'm not fully pleased. I don't know what exactly I don't like about it(other than the generic idea that I don't like the jacket fit), so I hope one of you suit gurus can help me out with some suggestions.

As I mentioned above, I'm really not very happy with the jacket fit, but I don't know what to say/ask for from them. The look I'm going for is a slim cut suit. Specifically, I told them I wanted it to remain classic(so I can wear it for longer than a few years), but with a slightly trim cut to it. As a bigger guy(in the shoulders as well as the stomach), I wanted it to be slimming as well. I don't really think I got either. The jacket looks boxy to me. There is no flow to it(specifically in the waist to hip area) and I feel like my shoulders are a mile wide while I have virtually no waist. The shoulders fit me(like I said, I've got very wide shoulders), so I don't think they messed up there at all, I think it has to do with my chest area and below. I know there is only so much you can do to give a slimming appearance to a guy with a slight gut, but I think there is certainly more that can be done than this. I haven't even gotten around to critiquing my slacks; too much with the jacket to focus on for now.

Please give me your honest suggestions. I've got a little less than a month left in HK before I head back to the US and I'd like to take advantage of the free alterations I get on the suit while I'm still here. Photos below(sorry for the shoes). Please let me know if there are any other angles that could prove useful. Thanks in advance!

 

[robetrw006]

This may not be the best example, but here is a photo showing something close to what I want for my suit. I realize this guy is skinny and I'm not, but his suit is very well fitted and shows off his good features, IMO. I don't believe mine is/does, despite being measured, asked about fit, and fitted multiple times. Empire, like some of the other HK tailors I've read about, doesn't really do it if you don't ask for it. I asked for what I wanted to the best of my ability, but I guess that wasn't good enough. They were always willing to make alterations without any complaints, but I still felt the sense they were just trying to do the minimum possible and get me out of there as quickly as they could. If it was up to them, I would have walked out of there after the second fitting with a pants 2 inches too long!

 

[dragon8]

The sleeves look good but the jacket looks short. The coat also seems to be pulling just a tad when buttoned. You could use some more waist suppression and the pants seem bunched in the back-probably too much fabric.

I would've stuck with Simpson Sin.

 

[robetrw006]

I'm satisfied with the sleeves. I had asked them to take the chest in a touch and they ended up shortening one sleeve a lot, but I pointed it out and they fixed it nicely. I believe they have talented tailors there, but as with all most tailors you need to know what you want and you need to know how to ask for it. I knew what I wanted, but wasn't the best at being able to ask for it. I'm quite new to the suit(only had one adult suit before this. RTW, no tailoring, and what I now realize to be an ill fit), and I don't know exactly what to ask for. TBH, "waist suppression" is a new term to me. I tried to study up as much as I could on suiting terminology before I ventured to the tailor, but I suppose a few key terms slipped through the cracks.

Yea, hindsight being 20/20, I probably should have just paid the extra 300HKD, skipped out on the shirts, and gone with Sin. I had read good things about Empire though and their willingness to give me what I wanted with no extra fee really hooked me at the time. Also, Sin seemed unmoving on his price. I went with my friend who was also planning on getting a suit made and I read everywhere that 2 suits equals savings. I was really planning on being able to negotiate for a cheaper price or at least a few shirts for free. His unwillingness to negotiate didn't give me a good impression at first. Empire's package price, friendly attitude, and can-do mentality really struck me. They are the better businessmen, Sin is the better tailor. I forgot my own mantra: you get what you pay for. Still, I believe I can still get a decent suit out of this deal(correct me if I'm wrong), I just need to take another trip or two back.

Ok, so to be clear about waist suppression, does it need to be taken in in the area around the middle of my sleeve(elbow area) or closer to the jacket pockets? I was thinking perhaps around the jacket pocket area. It seems to me like my hips look quite wide in this jacket. I was also thinking that I really lack a streamlined torso starting just below the armpits and going pretty much all the way down. I almost feel like the jacket was cut to hang straight down and they took it in slightly at the waist to give it "shape," or at least what they call "shape."

So, a visit back to Empire is certain(for a bit more tailoring). I should ask for more waist suppression and for them to take a look at the bunching in the trousers; anything else? At first I thought it was the chest (pectoral area), but after you mention the waist area I really see it. Hopefully waist suppression is the touch I've been searching for but been unable to execute. Thank you kindly for your advice!

Any others care to offer their two cents? All is appreciated! If I'm getting free tailoring, I might as well use it to the fullest!

 

[robetrw006]

The below image is what I feel the problems are(for all of you visual thinkers out there, myself included). I feel like the jacket was cut to hang straight down and the green area was taken in slightly to give it a "waist." I feel like the suit may have better lines if the jacket is taken at the area pointed out by the red arrows. Is this a huge blunder? Am I way off base? I hate to seem so ignorant on the subject, but unfortunately I had already exercised all my knowledge of tailoring by the time I left the shop with the suit.

Also, possibly even taking it in a little more above the green box, in the chest area?

I'm sure I am really showing that I'm a greenhorn by asking all these questions. Again, thanks for the help in advance!

 

[GBR]

Try another set of photographs with proper shoes: you cannot try a suit for fit with slippers or whatever those things are. It may well not change the coat but it will the trousers.

 

[dragon8]



The below image is what I feel the problems are(for all of you visual thinkers out there, myself included). I feel like the jacket was cut to hang straight down and the green area was taken in slightly to give it a "waist." I feel like the suit may have better lines if the jacket is taken at the area pointed out by the red arrows. Is this a huge blunder? Am I way off base? I hate to seem so ignorant on the subject, but unfortunately I had already exercised all my knowledge of tailoring by the time I left the shop with the suit. Also, possibly even taking it in a little more above the green box, in the chest area? I'm sure I am really showing that I'm a greenhorn by asking all these questions. Again, thanks for the help in advance!

Yes, where you have the green box is where the waist suppression should be. I think the sleeves are ok. Don't worry about the questions that's how we all learn. Happy to help.

 

[MisterFu]

The below image is what I feel the problems are(for all of you visual thinkers out there, myself included). I feel like the jacket was cut to hang straight down and the green area was taken in slightly to give it a "waist." I feel like the suit may have better lines if the jacket is taken at the area pointed out by the red arrows. Is this a huge blunder? Am I way off base? I hate to seem so ignorant on the subject, but unfortunately I had already exercised all my knowledge of tailoring by the time I left the shop with the suit.

Also, possibly even taking it in a little more above the green box, in the chest area?

I'm sure I am really showing that I'm a greenhorn by asking all these questions. Again, thanks for the help in advance!

Additional waist suppression may result in further issues on the backside of the jacket. Other than being at least an in inch too short (which is the fashion right now), the jacket fit is reasonably good upfront and further attempts at correcting the issues in the back may result in other undesirable problems. The real problem is the pants, which need some serious work. Given the short jacket, you need minimal or no break in the pants and the tailor really needs to clean up the backside, which has far too much fabric from the knee up. Clean up the pants and I think the whole suit will look better (certainly decent and wearable for a 500 USD suit).

In the future I would go with a more conservative jacket length (on your body type it will look less boxy).

 

[Trompe le Monde]

how do you propose making a stronger silhouette with a waist that's already tight on your admittedly large belly and the shoulders that you claim are already a mile wide

 

[Pasha]



This may not be the best example, but here is a photo showing something close to what I want for my suit. I realize this guy is skinny and I'm not, but his suit is very well fitted and shows off his good features, IMO. I don't believe mine is/does, despite being measured, asked about fit, and fitted multiple times. Empire, like some of the other HK tailors I've read about, doesn't really do it if you don't ask for it. I asked for what I wanted to the best of my ability, but I guess that wasn't good enough. They were always willing to make alterations without any complaints, but I still felt the sense they were just trying to do the minimum possible and get me out of there as quickly as they could. If it was up to them, I would have walked out of there after the second fitting with a pants 2 inches too long! Hit the gym, lose about 70 pounds and then you could get the suit you want. It verges on impossible to make a slim suit for your body type. No matter who your tailor happens to be.

 

[kulata]

Jacket is ok, two issues I see are a slightly tight waist and the short length. Pants on the other hand needs a lot of work.

 

[robetrw006]

Ok, so it sounds like I should certainly ask for the thigh area of the pants to be taken in, but that sounds like the only consensus. Some say more waist suppression, some says less. my question to those of you who say the waist is tight is this: If i ask them to let the waist out, wouldn't that risk the possibility of making the jacket look more... burlap sack-y? I know I don't have the perfect canvass for a suit(aka a thin frame), but I would like to try and give the jacket a little more shape than it currently has. I don't expect the suit to make me look like I weigh 135 when in reality I weigh 200, but there must be something else that can be done(aside from the obvious frequent trips to the gym). Am I way off base? Am I expecting too much of my suit?

The other thing that most seem to agree upon is jacket length. It sounds like most think it should be about an inch longer. If I go and ask them to do this, will they be able to? I don't know much about the construction of jackets, so I don't really know if there is any material they can let out. I know its always harder to let out than take in, but I'm not sure if letting out on this particular area of the jacket is even possible. Can anyone advise?

As for the shoes, I came to HK unprepared for business/suit wearing. I have no dress shoes here. I will try to take a picture of just the trousers with some Sperry's on(boat loafers). Unfortunately, that's the best I've got when it comes to "proper" shoes.

 

[kulata]

For your next order, increase the size of the lapels, use a slightly lower buttoning point, increase the length, use double vents and relax the waist a little. That will surely improve the optics

 

[robetrw006]

For your next order, increase the size of the lapels, use a slightly lower buttoning point, increase the length, use double vents and relax the waist a little. That will surely improve the optics

Can all of this be done to this suit? As mentioned earlier, I don't know much about the construction of jackets. I know there's only so much you can do to "let out/relax." I'm particularly concerned about this when it comes to the jacket length and lapel size. Will there be enough fabric to work with so they can do those two things?

I was also contemplating a lower button stance; what do you think, half an inch lower? 3/4, maybe?

As for the vent, I will probably leave it as is. I'm American and single vent is the standard for business in the US. I don't know the nationality of the primary users of this forum(are the majority of you guys Brits?), but I want to keep the vent American business traditional.

Thanks for the suggestions. I wish that Empire had been as helpful the first time around!

 

[kulata]



Can all of this be done to this suit? As mentioned earlier, I don't know much about the construction of jackets. I know there's only so much you can do to "let out/relax." I'm particularly concerned about this when it comes to the jacket length and lapel size. Will there be enough fabric to work with so they can do those two things?

I was also contemplating a lower button stance; what do you think, half an inch lower? 3/4, maybe?

As for the vent, I will probably leave it as is. I'm American and single vent is the standard for business in the US. I don't know the nationality of  the primary users of this forum(are the majority of you guys Brits?), but I want to keep the vent American business traditional.

Thanks for the suggestions. I wish that Empire had been as helpful the first time around!

Only two things can be easily done; loosening the waist and increasing the length, if there is fabric to use.

Do yourself a big favor and ditch the center vent. I am also an American and not aware of a National suit cut. Will you be penalized for not conforming? Lol. All my colleagues and even the elderly business men I see in airports and meetings wear double vented suits. Wear what works for your physique not someone's view on what Americans should wear.

Good luck!