Honest question

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by @riss, Oct 5, 2004.

  1. @riss

    @riss Senior member

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    whewww... i was reading through the back links to some discussions of suits and first i have to say that some of you indisputably have a tremendous knowledge on this subject. however--and i know that people have different opinions about this--it seemed that the same brands were discussed and others were categorically not mentioned.

    i understand that a very large emphasis is placed on fabrics and construction here, but honestly, is it the consensus among forum members that an Oxxford or a Canali suit is preferable to one of Tom Ford's creations at Gucci (outside of the context of work clothes vs. evening wear)? I seriously can't see this. Someone mentioned that you can pick up certain Oxxford models at Filene's Basement.

    Secondly, i admittedly go for styling over construction, but still, when spending upwards of $1200 on a suit i would like it to be well-made. so does anyone know what the level of worksmanship is on a helmut lang or a gucci, or a prada or a dior-homme suit??
     


  2. johnapril

    johnapril Senior member

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    From your list I know only Prada, fully canvassed, very well made, beautiful off the rack. Best thing to so is learn as much about construction as you can, then investigate the styles you like, if those be designers. See if their workmanship lives up to the "look" and obvious cost. I have to say, it is quite a thirll to pick apart an Armani suit for its poor workmanship right in front of the salesperson (i.e, oh, geez, look at how it's glued together here).
     


  3. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member Admin Moderator

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    Designer suits are all adequately made - they are certainly better than your average Kenneth Cole at Macy's - and the materials are generally better. However, I think that the consensus on the forum is that that Jil Sander suits are probably the only really consistently well-constructed designer suit, in the traditional sense of having a floating front, extensive handiwork, etc...

    This designer vs. trational makers debate may be becoming meaningless, however, as more and more of the designer houses are contracting their suits to reputable traditional tailoring houses (RLPL to St. Andrews, for example, and the Polo suits are made by Corneliani.)
     


  4. T4phage

    T4phage Senior member

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    Originally posted by @riss:
    For me, honestly [​IMG] Yes.
     


  5. drizzt3117

    drizzt3117 Senior member

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    I have a Prada and Gucci suit in my closet, in addition to a variety of suits from other manufacturers. In my opinion, the quality is decent, perhaps in line with my Zegna suits, but not really spectacular. The cuts are fairly flattering, but the drapes aren't as elegant as that of Brioni or some of the Neopolitans. Personally I would wear Oxxford out to dinner etc (indeed, I posted pictures of such a suit) but perhaps a Brioni would be a more appropriate suit for evening wear. Certainly I prefer Brioni/Oxxford over Gucci/YSL/HL/Prada, etc... but I am not sure if those are fair comparisons, as Brioni and Oxxford retail for at least twice as much as the other brands being discussed.

    As for say, a Canali/Corneliani/Zegna suit compared to a Prada suit? That is going to be personal preference, as generally each of these will be fairly well constructed, and perhaps the occasion may dictate which one may be more appropriate.
     


  6. @riss

    @riss Senior member

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    thanks. does anybody (labelking, la guy) know what the worksmanship is on slimane's stuff in particular, i.e. is there canvas, is it it glued, etc...? i assumed, perhaps wrongfully, that no glue would be used on a 2000 dollar suit.
     


  7. MilanoStyle

    MilanoStyle Senior member

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    Gucci hire Zegna to make Gucci suits.  Gucci has diferent grade on their suits like Zegna does.  Some of Gucci's are canvassed and some are fused but often in similar price range.

    I do not know who makes Prada suits, but I have seen fused Prada suit.  Same goes for Versace.

    I remember one member here said the following.  There are suit maker and suit designer or both.  Gucci and Prada are suit designers but not makers.  Do they really care how the suit is constructed?  But Brioni, Canali, Zegna, Oxxxford, Kiton, Attolini etc.. these guys are suit makers.  They each have their own philosophy on how the suit should be built while achiving their traditional design.  

    When buying Gucci suit, you can pay $1500US for fused suit.  But different model in Gucci suit may cost the same but it is canvassed.  

    If you buy a suit from a suit maker, you can pretty much sure what you are going to get.  but when you buy a suit from suit designer, the quality is really hit/miss (buy for style).

    finally, I would choose which suit to wear depending on the occasion.  I won't wear Canali's to parties or clubbin.  For parties etc.. I would wear show off suit like Armani or Brioni.  But Gucci will do too.

    For business or formal dinner, I would wear Canali without hesitation.

    Before, I was like you .. I cared more of style than construction .. but once i tasted the beauty of construction, my view changed. A suit with high quality canvase does make suit look real rich and elegant. This is something you cannot achieve with fusion and style ...
     


  8. @riss

    @riss Senior member

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    thanks, i appreciate the info. i don't know though, while i can appreciate theoretically the value of construction that goes into, say an oxxford, i honestly don't think it looks very chic--especially compared to some of the high end designer stuff like dior and mcqueen. however, with the exception of kiton, i used to be kind of dismissive of these brands, but just reading some posts on the styleforum has given me a new respect for their worksmanship and i am starting to get interested in kiton and am going to start checking them out. thanks again.
     


  9. drizzt3117

    drizzt3117 Senior member

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    I don't think Oxxford ever intended their suits to be "chic" rather project an aura of success and confidence.
     


  10. @riss

    @riss Senior member

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    i guess you're right, but i have the mindset that clothes need to first and foremost be about aesthetics--they must look very good and make the wearer look good. now that, of course, is subjective.
     


  11. shoreman1782

    shoreman1782 Senior member

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    As with pretty much EVERY question of styling and (vs?)construction, it's a question of personal taste. Drizzt has a point. Oxxford isn't chic, and doesn't pursue the market that purchases Hedi Slimane's designs; similarly, Jil Sander is probably not outfitting the Sausage King of Chicago, or any other executive who wears a 50S.

    Quality is a subjective trait. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. etc. etc. I really can't compare an Oxxford and a Prada. Though they may have a lot in common, their aim and appeal are so wide of each other it's difficult to compare.

    Some people like to drive a Rolls, some like a Ferrari, some are fine with a Honda Civic. Given the choice, many would like a blend of craftsmanship, quality components, and styling. I think suit owners here have their personal preferences for style and construction, and most appreciate the virtues of the alternatives. They may, however, defend vigorously the ground they stand on.

    I'll have to defer to others on the construction quality of designer suits, I've not examined new suits from the designers you mentioned, @riss. I have seen some Prada suits that were DEFINITELY fused, but they were not recent offerings, so that may have changed.
     


  12. ROT

    ROT Senior member

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    I'd have to weigh in on the side of the traditional makers of suits. I subscribe to the theory that a well-made suit makes you feel more comfortable and therefore you are more elegant.

    I'd say that the ultimate goal is for someone to say "Wow. He always looks great." And not, "That's a snazzy suit." But, in today's biz casual world wearing a suit at all is cause for remark.

    In addition, a fashionable suit is subject to the changing whims of fashion. Zoot suits anyone? Or those Italian short skirted jackets from the 60s? I have a bespoke suit made for my wife's grandfather in the 50s in England. It doesn't look out of place in the best restaurants today. But it's a bit heavy for central heating.
     


  13. drizzt3117

    drizzt3117 Senior member

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    I would imagine that Oxxford suits are generally worn in a business setting, but certainly they can go from day to night with ease. I don't really see someone wearing a Dior suit in a professional setting unless they are in a seriously flashy industry. Oxxford suits aren't intended to be chic or fashionable, but timeless, and that is why vintage Oxxford can be worn as easily as 2004 models. While one of my Oxxford suits wouldn't be my first choice to be worn to a high end club environment, there's always Brioni for that. I think Oxxford suits are beautiful garments that are suitable for almost every occasion, and would generally prefer them over any designer wear.
     


  14. LabelKing

    LabelKing Senior member

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    Dior Homme's items are not meant to be worn on a daily basis. Such is why some people report that various items of the clothing fall off like buttons, zipper pulls, etc.

    Most of the hardware is for highly decorative purposes. However the quality is not subpar, etc. Comparable to Bottega Veneta or Gucci.

    I do not know whether Dior Homme's suits are fused or canvassed.
     


  15. aybojs

    aybojs Senior member

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    All the Dior Homme suits I have seen have been canvased... I don't know who makes them, but I think I've seen someone here mention it before.
     


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