Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Claghorn, May 21, 2014.
I would too if I saw waves like that. Lol
If you are wearing a jacket and tie all week as it is, I bet if you wore a suit a few times a week for a month straight that would stop the comments. You are not getting them because of the suit I dont think, rather because they are not accustomed to seeing YOU in a suit. Id lay a bet on that and Im not even a betting man.
Big topic, Clags, PB, Stitchy.
There are a couple of factors at play here in addition to the ones Clags identified. One is age, and the other is context, which in this case really means region.
I'm a young looking 30 in the upper midwest. I can wear a jacket/odd trousers and tie to work, and it draws comments (not all of them complimentary from my Carhartt-clad colleagues), but it's read as an expression of eccentricity and, on good days, of style and taste preference. If I wore a conservative suit to work, it would 100% be read as naked ambition, projection, overcompensation, or with some other negative association. A big component of my work is image/acceptance, from both students and colleagues. I can't tell them to go fuck themselves, however nicely--at least not until after tenure. There's a calculation there, I'll admit, and I would rather circumstantial/environmental calculation not figure into my sartorial choices at all, BUT sartorial style doesn't exist in a vacuum--it's a component (ideally) of how we engage the public around us. If wardrobe is out of sync with manner, personality, etc, or if it strikes those around us as egregiously so, it isn't doing what it's supposed to do.
Note: this is not the same as the viciously classist assumptions/critiques of people "dressing above their station" that Clags cites in his business-card example from Korea. I'm not sure that they are entirely unrelated, but it's a big difference of degree.
Just thought I'd offer my $.02.
Ugh...the descriptive words that come to my mind when I think about the Korean culture are: superficial and materialistic. They sometimes go beyond their limits to keep up and look good. This means buying a 5 series BMW or an Audi A8 on their parents' money. They got to have the latest Chanel bags, phones, etc.
I had a jerk who asked me why I would invest so much on suits when I am only an accountant.
(I forgot to tell him that I make 6 figs and have a word director in my job title)
In Korea, people treat you based on what they can see: clothing, accessories, and cars. They are highly discriminatory against people who are not dressed well, especially at departmental stores. But they are very polite and courteous to people who are wearing expensive clothing. They are indeed very superficial.
I still remember when Clags and I went to a Jonnie Walker store and they wouldn't let us drink there. Granted it was a store but they had a VIP lounge where we could have had our drinks. But Clags was dressed to the T while I was wearing jeans, looking like a bum. I get the feeling that they refused to serve us because I looked like a bum. We were in a very expensive area. Bad example but you get the gist.
Another time in Korea, I walked into a Zegna boutique store and they latched onto me as soon as they saw that I was wearing a nice Burberry coat.
But... we are American. We are always in the right.
I feel like all of this exists in New York as well, but maybe just not as amplified. I certainly get a lot of attention, both negative and positive for being overdressed in a lot of situations, but never anything confrontational, or dismissive.
Wow, I'm beginning to think I'd have told someone to fuck right off, too if I lived in Korea.
In about 22 hours I will be in the airport in Taipei. Anything I should know about there?
I certainly would have. General indecency really gets to me.
My added emphasis in the quote above is intended to highlight a crucial qualification of your claim, without which I'd have to argue that not everyone who meets your definition of dressiness ("have an important meeting when they don't") falls into one of your two categories, which seem to suggest that all such dressiness is a product of one's aspirations. But it can also be a product of one's accomplishments: it may be an appropriate expression of the wearer's position in a particular hierarchy (of which the casual onlooker may not be aware).
The social contexts of dress are enormously complex, varying by time, place, profession, age of the wearer and the observer, and too many other factors to consider here. But you know this.
P.S.: You need to change bars.
It's entirely unrelated to my love of clothes, but I find discussions of clothes and perception to be fascinating.
No, probably not. I am talked about a very high competitive part of Korea where the rich people live and hang out.
Koreans are generally very nice. Nicer than most Americans that I have met. I've not had any bad experiences there as a foreigner.
They do, however, ask me why I have a funny accent when I speak Korean.
I just find it odd how many people are so influenced by what people will think of them if they dress better than others. I think it has a lot to do with insecurity and I don't think even at work people care as much as they think. Sure you might foster comments, but people, especially at work always having something to say. Little things become conversations pieces to break monotony. When I get a haircut people will without fail, "hey did you get a haircut?" Who the fuck cares if I got a haircut? Why bring it up? People seriously like to hear themselves talk and appearance is the easiest thing for them to latch onto. I swear if I get new socks this one lady will notice and bring it up and for what? People are just so nosey and odd.
I think because I am a next level asshole and general nonconformist I kind of enjoy wearing things that are nonstandard.
Are you making fun of me? If not, me too.
Separate names with a comma.