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HOF: What Are You Wearing Right Now - Part IV (starting May 2014)

Alan Bee

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Lovely composition.

The balance of the jacket seems off. The jacket is higher in the back then in the front in most of the photos. There appears to be a considerable gap between your bum and the bottom of your jacket as well. You should have your tailor fix this.

The tie is comically long given the rise of the pants. You really need shorter custom ties to match the pant rise.

Lastly, you should consider tucking in your laces so your pants don’t get caught on them. It ruins the otherwise lovely drape of your pants.
@An Acute Style

1. Front/Back Balance: Please read up on this. The back is always cut “slightly” shorter than the front. Always. At least according to my tailor. And also according to Derek @dieworkwear in the article.


2. Gap between coat vent and pants bum. I am leaning forward in the 1st photo. Look at #3 and #5 and the gap is less discernible. Also, it may have to do with a large skirt. I have a bit of a rump (bum) which gets in the way of my vents lying flat so my tailor gives me a bit of room in the skirt to prevent a “flaying” vent.

3. Neckties: I guess you have a point. But have you seen those 1930’s short neckties that we’re worn with high rise pants? They look even more comical. When I actually button the coat, no one can tell that the tie goes past the waistband. It just looks like a regular tie.

4. Shoes: point well taken. Tuck in shoelaces next time .

Alan Bee
 
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lordsuperb

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bernoulli

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@Alan Bee

And thank you for a very thoughtful response. I cannot resist a good cigar and scotch so I will take you up on your offer. I do not live in New York. I live a peripatetic life, between China, Europe and Latin America. I am in New York only once or twice a year. I believe you live in Abu Dhabi, correct? Given we have a campus over there, it may be that I will write to you so the cigars can be had on your home turf.

Call me Rod, please. Bernoulli is my homage to famous mathematicians. As for debating an academic, I do not intend to win but to learn, so all is fair.

As for a full cut, high rise being *better*. Here is my counterargument: body types are infinitely varied. And yes, bodies have indeed changed over time. The average human is still growing. People like me (6'5") did not exist some generations ago, or were rare enough that no tailoring rule would be drawn for us. But let us ignore that for a second.

Of course I agree that rules and theories exist. I put forward one of my own! But again, cultural context. The rules you refer to are Anglo-Saxon ones. Certainly, rules are different in Asia, Latin America etc. No model maps to reality one to one. So any theory HAS to come with caveats. No rule works for EVERYBODY. It simply can't. The world is not deterministic.

And we are not arguing fashion. The counterpoint to full cut high rise trousers not being THE rule is not "everything goes, let's do skinny".

I believe the rules you refer to are valid in the cultural context you refer to (Anglo-Saxon, semi-conservative world). But they cannot be the rules outside of that context. Certainly, this discussion would be lost to most civilized human beings in Asia, for one. Or Italy, or Latin America (again, in Brazil the rule you refer to is literally used by clowns).

I have tried the things you propose as rules. They fail for me. I am mostly legs. High-rising trousers don't make me look like a clown but I simply find them aesthetically inferior to my body type.

But this is not about an exception. It is not about rebellion. It is about model-building. Maybe it is about colonialism - we should all follow the Anglo-Saxon model (I wouldn't go as far as that).

I still fail to see what you propose as THE general rule, but I do concede that for many people, and certainly for most people in a certain cultural context, it is very close to that.

And group hug accepted.

@bernoulli

Thank you for a very thoughtful response. I will say again, you seem the type I'd love more than anything to engage over a cigar and a glass of choice beverage. But shall we leave that for when I'm back in NYC? (where I presume you live).

Now, group-hug everyone?? And do smile for the camera :-D @DiplomaticTies @themanfromLisbon @DonCologne @1st Step @Michael81 and all other contributors to @themanfromLisbon (admitted & acquitted) gaffe.

@bernoulli
Sir, may I call you Ben? I am not going to test the debating skills of an academic, that's a 99-1 odds (loosing) bet. But what I'm going to attempt to do (over the coming fit entries) is show by example why "Full Cut, High Rise" trousers flatter almost everyone, from the short and wiry, to the tall and girthy.

Dress has always been about proportion and bio-mechanics of the human body - Male in this instance. The human body hasn't changed since the invention of the lounge suit (and proper trousers that go with it). @themanfromLisbon may derisively refer to them as "dead mens clothes" but theres a reason why they were invented that way in the first place. What is fashionable is almost in fact never what is right. Fashion (like skinny pants strangled at the ankles) is almost always rebellion just for the sake of it. So yes, do wear your Italian drain pipes all you like but I would wager you are shortchanging yourself (stylistically at least).

There are reasons why "rules" and "theories" exist. Of course dress rules aren't quite maxims in the same way that say, E=mc2, and do not imply forfeiture of artistic or creative license. But you also enjoy that franchise of liberty at the risk of coming out looking foolish if you don't know, or fail to acknowledge rules. What was it they said about liberty again??

"Eternal Vigilance is the price of Liberty"

Alan Bee
 

steveabdn

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For what it’s worth, I thought your fit would be improved with a marginally larger trouser leg opening, but not as large as the example Alan posted. I think the gentleman in the photos leg is lost in the cloth and accentuates the slender legs (mainly in the picture where he is in motion).

I like your fit, I like Alan’s fit and I’m glad to see we are all back to getting along!!
 

blekit

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I was feeling bold that day. Fortunately I managed to constrain myself after shirt and tie, but it's still one of the bolder outfits in my most recent history :)
full_03_edited.png

details_01_edited.png

shoes_01_edited.png

* Andells jacket
* Tyrwhitt
* tie and ps from Poszetka
* Benevento chino
* Yanko shoes
 

hpreston

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L.deJong

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@Alan Bee

And thank you for a very thoughtful response. I cannot resist a good cigar and scotch so I will take you up on your offer. I do not live in New York. I live a peripatetic life, between China, Europe and Latin America. I am in New York only once or twice a year. I believe you live in Abu Dhabi, correct? Given we have a campus over there, it may be that I will write to you so the cigars can be had on your home turf.

Call me Rod, please. Bernoulli is my homage to famous mathematicians. As for debating an academic, I do not intend to win but to learn, so all is fair.

As for a full cut, high rise being *better*. Here is my counterargument: body types are infinitely varied. And yes, bodies have indeed changed over time. The average human is still growing. People like me (6'5") did not exist some generations ago, or were rare enough that no tailoring rule would be drawn for us. But let us ignore that for a second.

Of course I agree that rules and theories exist. I put forward one of my own! But again, cultural context. The rules you refer to are Anglo-Saxon ones. Certainly, rules are different in Asia, Latin America etc. No model maps to reality one to one. So any theory HAS to come with caveats. No rule works for EVERYBODY. It simply can't. The world is not deterministic.

And we are not arguing fashion. The counterpoint to full cut high rise trousers not being THE rule is not "everything goes, let's do skinny".

I believe the rules you refer to are valid in the cultural context you refer to (Anglo-Saxon, semi-conservative world). But they cannot be the rules outside of that context. Certainly, this discussion would be lost to most civilized human beings in Asia, for one. Or Italy, or Latin America (again, in Brazil the rule you refer to is literally used by clowns).

I have tried the things you propose as rules. They fail for me. I am mostly legs. High-rising trousers don't make me look like a clown but I simply find them aesthetically inferior to my body type.

But this is not about an exception. It is not about rebellion. It is about model-building. Maybe it is about colonialism - we should all follow the Anglo-Saxon model (I wouldn't go as far as that).

I still fail to see what you propose as THE general rule, but I do concede that for many people, and certainly for most people in a certain cultural context, it is very close to that.

And group hug accepted.
I would add that it's not only cultural but also what you like as an aesthetic (for yourself and for others).
To be honest, somebody can wear almost anything (as fashion shows), we don't do that, why? well because we don't like it and we know what looks good on our body. - Or maybe we are afraid of wearing it for some reason or another, one would be culture, I think this is a big factor of what we would and what we would not wear -

For instance, I wear high-rise trousers (as my pictures show - just like Alan Bee I'm already frustrated when I can 'feel' my pants around my thighs when I sit, I just don't like it...)
I worked as a history teacher at a high-school and my colleagues would ask me why I had such long flyes and I would always say: 'because I have a large (...)' and be done with it. It's just because I love the aesthetic and I like the comfort it gives me. That also means that I go against the common aesthetic/culture.

If you want those pants you need to go bespoke, no-way you can find them RTW... It's more a thing of the past than ever.
Does that make me better or 'inferior' no! I think that everybody has to find out what he likes, for me, it's high-rise full-cut trousers.

Ow btw, I do think a lot of people should at least try it (as you mentioned you did, so I think you have all the right to tell me that it's not for you). There are a lot of people that just hate and say it's old-looking that didn't try it for themselves.

I follow my own taste. Culture for me is just an excuse and an inspiration (because I'm not longing for the past, I'm not wearing 1930's fashion, I take my inspiration that's that).
And if somebody knows me (just a little) he or she knows that when it comes to clothing/grooming and other stuff related to my personal style I will consider criticism. When I eventually do think they are correct I will make some changes (some people will call this stubborn).

I don't tell you to go against culture. But it's good to ask yourself why you do certain things.
And when you say it's because of culture I think you have to reconsider and look deeper... why is it that culture makes you do certain things?
Is it's because of the fear of being different? (just because you think that if you look different you would not fit in and be an outsider? or you would be mocked at work? or you would get bad attention?)
Well, those things are holding you back! It's bogus and an excuse. To a certain extent of course, because let's face it; we would not go fully dressed to a beach party duhhh).
I will tell you that by becoming different and by wearing your personal style you WILL become more confident.
 

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