• We would like to welcome Craftsman Clothing back as an official Affiliate Vendor. Craftsman Clothing is a brand for the refined men who want to look good with minimal effort, and care about products that are well-made. In additon to being a go-to brand for all things essential, Craftsman Clothing also offers bespoke outerwear that’s uniquely crafted for you. Please visit their thread and give them a warm welcome.

  • STYLE. COMMUNITY. GREAT CLOTHING.

    Bored of counting likes on social networks? At Styleforum, you’ll find rousing discussions that go beyond strings of emojis.

    Click Here to join Styleforum's thousands of style enthusiasts today!

HOF: What Are You Wearing Right Now - Part IV (starting May 2014)

Alan Bee

Distinguished Member
Joined
Sep 26, 2007
Messages
1,110
Reaction score
4,064
In the spirit of giving and receiving critique I think that one of the major issues that some people react to when you give advice is that there is no humility, no context and not enough respect. Your views are expressed as absolute truths, usually with the same nuance that you would expect from a drill sergeant barking orders.

I count myself as one of your fans on SF. I think that your fits usually are excellent, I like your aesthetic and I also appreciate the fact that you share your journey and experience. But I would reject any notion of someone, including you, stumbling on some absolute truth for #menswear. I would dispute that such truth even exists, and if it does I haven't seen it yet. But you persist in hammering in your viewpoints in a way that I believe many people find grating. Not everyone share your aesthetic and style, not everyone have the means to design a wardrobe the way you have told us that you developed yours, and not everyone share your views on health and bodyshape.

There might be a million different reasons why a person is overweight, or a smoker, drinker or whatever we can do to hurt our bodies. But to expect that a person should (or even could) change their lifestyle because someone in an internet forum tells you to is not likely. And frankly it is disrespectful as well since you have no knowledge about the underlying reasons. That's probably why many reacted to Vic's comment, even if I'm sure he didn't mean it in that way.

Now and then someone in SF, usually a beginner, posts a fit that is just hopeless and impossible to defend. In such cases "tough love" can be a way forward. But in most cases advice is best given in dialogue and with a modicum of understanding and respect. As long as you persist in condemning everything that's not along the lines of your taste and your advice is always distributed in the form of orders, I doubt that you will find many takers of your advice. Which is a pity since you clearly have a wealth of experience and have gone through a long trial and error phase to get where you are today.
@DiplomaticTies

Thank you for your very well thought out response (and I'm not being polite).

That being said and while I'd love to engage you on a few points, we know what happens each time this subject comes up (the thread gets derailed).

Perhaps what one should really do when offering feedback on this forum is, bring along a very comfortable California King bed complete with a memory foam tempurpedic pillow. You know ...... just to ensure the subject is extremely comfortable, then proceed to feed critical feedback via a platinum plated drip-line (tongue in cheek).

As to your military drill sergeant reference, I did after all attend a boys military academy from age 12-18. I guess you can't quite take the bush out of the man ....

Thank you once more DT

Alan Bee
 

Alan Bee

Distinguished Member
Joined
Sep 26, 2007
Messages
1,110
Reaction score
4,064
@Alan Bee

I am an academic and debating is my trade. I even put forward a logical proposition so we could argue about it. Let me repeat it: "Here is a proposition that I could get behind and is more in line with your view: between badly cut full vs slim trousers, fullness is preferable."

Not only I was not that interested in "defending" my fit (which admittedly I did) but I wrote my comment to engage in a debate with you. I understand you choosing not to engage (maybe you found the proposition obvious or wrong) but find a bit baffling to come back and find that comment from you. But let me state that as @DiplomaticTies, I am a fan of your fits and that is unlikely to change (I am much less enamored of your choice of repeatedly go back to Naples for sartorial purposes: I keep coming back to drive around different parts of Italy because life is too short to visit Naples too many times, for whatever purpose. But "de gustibus etc etc".)
@bernoulli

What is wrong with Naples? I mean, there are so many beautiful places to see in Italy but if you want your motorcar fixed, you don't go to a barbershop.

I didn't miss your "subtle" invitation to debate your fit in the prior entry. But as I said to @DiplomaticTies above, we've been down this path before and usually it isn't long before trolls looking for a fight wade in, turning the debate into a circus for charlatans with nothing better to do.

I really do like your style, even if it is sometimes idiosyncratic (turn-back cuffs on your suit jackets and all). But when I see such an elegant figure, I can't help but wonder, "how can I make this man bring out the best in him".

Alan Bee
 

Alan Bee

Distinguished Member
Joined
Sep 26, 2007
Messages
1,110
Reaction score
4,064
I like learning. That's why I am still waiting to learn why belts aren't for grown men and double monks are infantile... But still no answer. 🤷‍♂️
@hoodog

I have taken great pains (with illustration) to acquit myself on both points. And since you raised them, please refer to the same archives.

Alan Bee
 

hoodog

Distinguished Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2012
Messages
1,670
Reaction score
915
In the spirit of giving and receiving critique I think that one of the major issues that some people react to when you give advice is that there is no humility, no context and not enough respect. Your views are expressed as absolute truths, usually with the same nuance that you would expect from a drill sergeant barking orders.

I count myself as one of your fans on SF. I think that your fits usually are excellent, I like your aesthetic and I also appreciate the fact that you share your journey and experience. But I would reject any notion of someone, including you, stumbling on some absolute truth for #menswear. I would dispute that such truth even exists, and if it does I haven't seen it yet. But you persist in hammering in your viewpoints in a way that I believe many people find grating. Not everyone share your aesthetic and style, not everyone have the means to design a wardrobe the way you have told us that you developed yours, and not everyone share your views on health and bodyshape.

There might be a million different reasons why a person is overweight, or a smoker, drinker or whatever we can do to hurt our bodies. But to expect that a person should (or even could) change their lifestyle because someone in an internet forum tells you to is not likely. And frankly it is disrespectful as well since you have no knowledge about the underlying reasons. That's probably why many reacted to Vic's comment, even if I'm sure he didn't mean it in that way.

Now and then someone in SF, usually a beginner, posts a fit that is just hopeless and impossible to defend. In such cases "tough love" can be a way forward. But in most cases advice is best given in dialogue and with a modicum of understanding and respect. As long as you persist in condemning everything that's not along the lines of your taste and your advice is always distributed in the form of orders, I doubt that you will find many takers of your advice. Which is a pity since you clearly have a wealth of experience and have gone through a long trial and error phase to get where you are today.
Extremely well worded. Great post.
 

EFV

Distinguished Member
Affiliate Vendor
Dubiously Honored
Joined
Apr 8, 2011
Messages
3,907
Reaction score
21,351
@DiplomaticTies

Thank you for your very well thought out response (and I'm not being polite).

That being said and while I'd love to engage you on a few points, we know what happens each time this subject comes up (the thread gets derailed).

Perhaps what one should really do when offering feedback on this forum is, bring along a very comfortable California King bed complete with a memory foam tempurpedic pillow. You know ...... just to ensure the subject is extremely comfortable, then proceed to feed critical feedback via a platinum plated drip-line (tongue in cheek).

As to your military drill sergeant reference, I did after all attend a boys military academy from age 12-18. I guess you can't quite take the bush out of the man ....

Thank you once more DT

Alan Bee
There are millions of acres of social wiggle room between cushioning someone and simply being a courteous person. Dig into someone's outfits as much as you like but leave everything else out. I remember you getting defensive at some point when money and personal funds were brought up in a discussion on menswear. I agreed with you there, because it's really not anyone else's business. Same thing goes for everything else that's not clothes related. Unless you have a personal connection with someone, don't bring up subjects that, in any civilized society, would be considered rude.
 

Clouseau

Inspector
Joined
May 18, 2013
Messages
3,008
Reaction score
3,829
This all discussion started because a fat-phobic poster wrote an irrelevant post.
In every posts he wrote since, he has been sinking deeper and deeper. Imho, he should lie low...
Now i think it is not appropriate to fall into "Alan Bee bashing" again...
Please gents, post fits and forget the rest...
 

samtalkstyle

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2019
Messages
73
Reaction score
82
Things I have learned from the pictured outfit:

  1. A wider leg pant really draws the eye to the overtightness of my jacket's fit.
  2. I'm never wearing this polo under a jacket again, the collar disappears and makes it look more like a henley.
I do like the colour palette though.

1226386
 

Featured Sponsor

HOW OFTEN DO YOU SHOP FOR CLOTHES ONLINE?

  • I mainly buy my clothes online.

  • I shop online only if there is a sale.

  • I shop online when shipping and returns are free.

  • I shop in store only for very expensive items I want to try on.

  • I mainly shop in store.


Results are only viewable after voting.

Related Threads

Forum statistics

Threads
425,069
Messages
9,128,288
Members
191,861
Latest member
Chris Hong

Styleforum is proudly sponsored by

Top