HOF: What Are You Wearing Right Now - Part IV (starting May 2014)

[The Thin Man]



I'd say the more significant shift is from discussion to acquisition. "

I'm always surprised when I start to read a thread and then I realize how many of the participants are retailers. I wonder if this has a deterrent effect on discussions -- not in a nefarious way, but just that open, back-and-forth discussion will lead to criticisms that would be commercially uncomfortable. But surely the main thing crowding out good discussions is just the sheer proportion of members who are uninformed, which is probably the inevitable result of any hobbyist forum being around long enough. I guess if this site had kept commercial interests more in the background, it would have been a good thing, but probably not a saving grace.

This is one of the odder phenomena. I still see people spouting the old conventional wisdom, only for misremembered, misunderstood or out-of-context reasons, It's funny to see Manton's dislike of red ties hang on, with people denouncing them as loud or coordination-unfriendly even as WAYW basks in a neon glow.

For the record, I like red ties, so not all the old ways were better.

I think your point resolves an apparent contradiction in what I'm saying: that the site is lacking both enough members with first-hand traditional clothing knowledge and from people who've drunk too deeply from the "first-generation" posters. I value the non-Internet-mediated knowledge more. It's the River Lethe coursing through all of our lives.

 

[spectre]



Quik poll. Which of these for a cold weather SC? I'm liking number 1

Predictably, I like 2.

 

[hoodog]

Quik poll. Which of these for a cold weather SC? I'm liking number 1

My vote goes for #2. The less FU, the more use you'll get out of it. As for the other two, I prefer #3 - mainly because of said reason.

 

[spectre]



My point is that he should contributes in a positive manner instead of constantly talking about how great things used to be.
As someone mentioned befote pb likes sedate things. He however does not think there is one point of reaching you goal and neither are there any "good ole days"

Defence post #44. Many things were great (and others not so much). Wouldn't you like it if everyone dressed as well as they could afford to in the 30s for example, instead of getting around airport lounges in printed tee shirts, backwards baseball caps, shorts and flip flops?
Things weren't so great in the 80s with voluminous pleated chinos, boat shoes and branded polo shirts and that was 35 years ago.
I love classic cars but I also like power steering and air (don't know why I said that).
I probably reached my goal very early on but have continued to learn and refine, I hope. Goalposts keep moving.
In the end I would just like people to dress better and not believe being morbidly obese in track pants out and around malls is fine.
I was posting a lot in the days of Vox and Matt and so on and they seemed in tune with me but I seem to have returned to a different dynamic.

 

[spectre]



Window shot on a very sunny day.

Superb.

 

[Tirailleur1]



Defence post #44. Many things were great (and others not so much). Wouldn't you like it if everyone dressed as well as they could afford to in the 30s for example, instead of getting around airport lounges in printed tee shirts, backwards baseball caps, shorts and flip flops?
Things weren't so great in the 80s with voluminous pleated chinos, boat shoes and branded polo shirts and that was 35 years ago.
I love classic cars but I also like power steering and air (don't know why I said that).
I probably reached my goal very early on but have continued to learn and refine, I hope. Goalposts keep moving.
In the end I would just like people to dress better and not believe being morbidly obese in track pants out and around malls is fine.
I was posting a lot in the days of Vox and Matt and so on and they seemed in tune with me but I seem to have returned to a different dynamic.

I give up

 

[Monkeyface]

I'm always surprised when I start to read a thread and then I realize how many of the participants are retailers. I wonder if this has a deterrent effect on discussions -- not in a nefarious way, but just that open, back-and-forth discussion will lead to criticisms that would be commercially uncomfortable. But surely the main thing crowding out good discussions is just the sheer proportion of members who are uninformed, which is probably the inevitable result of any hobbyist forum being around long enough. I guess if this site had kept commercial interests more in the background, it would have been a good thing, but probably not a saving grace.
I think your point resolves an apparent contradiction in what I'm saying: that the site is lacking both enough members with first-hand traditional clothing knowledge and from people who've drunk too deeply from the "first-generation" posters. I value the non-Internet-mediated knowledge more. It's the River Lethe coursing through all of our lives.

I've read the older threads, and the average level of fits being posted right now is much, much higher, as is the average level of knowledge. Yes, there were a couple of very knowledgable guys back then, but the vast majority posted truly awful fits. Nowadays there are less bespoke guys, but there are also a hell of a lot less of awful fits.

The combination of someone having superb fits, great pictures (very important) and enough time on their hands to spend all day on a clothing forum to discuss stuff is exceedingly rare. Especially the picture quality is often overlooked by people saying it used to be better in the good old days. I am confident that many people have suits that fit just as well, if not better, than some of Foo's Rubinacci stuff, but it's hard to see from a bathroom mirror selfie.

Discussion could be at a higher level, but it always drops off during summer time.

Defence post #44. Many things were great (and others not so much). Wouldn't you like it if everyone dressed as well as they could afford to in the 30s for example, instead of getting around airport lounges in printed tee shirts, backwards baseball caps, shorts and flip flops?
Things weren't so great in the 80s with voluminous pleated chinos, boat shoes and branded polo shirts and that was 35 years ago.
I love classic cars but I also like power steering and air (don't know why I said that).
I probably reached my goal very early on but have continued to learn and refine, I hope. Goalposts keep moving.
In the end I would just like people to dress better and not believe being morbidly obese in track pants out and around malls is fine.
I was posting a lot in the days of Vox and Matt and so on and they seemed in tune with me but I seem to have returned to a different dynamic.

People still admire that aesthetic. Just looking at myself, I have posted at least three fits in the past two weeks that involve only two colours (navy/grey), very high quality handmade Neapolitan suits that fit superbly, MTM shirts, black Carmina oxfords and textured Drakes ties. It can't get more simple than that.

The dynamic has changed, but for the better. Most people on SF are more in touch with reality nowadays, which wasn't the case about 5 years ago. We came out of/are still suffering from a severe economic crisis. Youth unemployment is as high as 40-50% in some European countries.

Most people simply don't have the time nor the money to care about how they dress, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Do you really think a struggling family should spend their money on a suit and tie instead of making sure there's enough food in the fridge for the week, or saving up for a house or retirement, or taking the family out for a holiday so that they can experience different cultures? Frankly, I couldn't care less about how others dress in airport lounges or malls. Different people have different priorities.

I hate the saying 'check your privilege', but it is in order at the moment.

 

[The Thin Man]



I've read the older threads, and the average level of fits being posted right now is much, much higher, as is the average level of knowledge. Yes, there were a couple of very knowledgable guys back then, but the vast majority posted truly awful fits. Nowadays there are less bespoke guys, but there are also a hell of a lot less of awful fits.

The combination of someone having superb fits, great pictures (very important) and enough time on their hands to spend all day on a clothing forum to discuss stuff is exceedingly rare. Especially the picture quality is often overlooked by people saying it used to be better in the good old days. I am confident that many people have suits that fit just as well, if not better, than some of Foo's Rubinacci stuff, but it's hard to see from a bathroom mirror selfie.

Discussion could be at a higher level, but it always drops off during summer time.

Yes, the picture quality is much higher (which may explain your perception of "awful fits"). Of course, I disagree with everything else... Rubinacci isn't as good at fitting as the "many" off-the-rack purchasers, etc.

 

[sugarbutch]

Pliny, I like #1 by a mile. windowpane/box checks need to be really bold IMO.

 

[kulata]



Predictably, I like 2.

Co signing. It is neutral so it's more versatile.

Not a fan of windowpane with blues in it and I don't like the shade of blue in #1.

 

[AJL]



I'd say the more significant shift is from discussion to acquisition. "Pattern matching as competitive sport" goes back to the earliest days of the forum, and is a common rite of passage. There's a natural tendency to peacock, especially for young guys, and far fewer folks here these days urging restraint. (Or at least fewer influential members willing to denounce things in forceful Foo-fashion.)
This is one of the odder phenomena. I still see people spouting the old conventional wisdom, only for misremembered, misunderstood or out-of-context reasons. It's funny to see Manton's dislike of red ties hang on, with people denouncing them as loud or coordination-unfriendly even as WAYW basks in a neon glow.

For the record, I like red ties, so not all the old ways were better.

Bolded for truth. An excellent observation.

I, for one, would welcome more active critiquing of overzealous competitive pattern-matchers by respected veterans like yourself. You, and others who feel as you do, may be surprised to find more support here than you think. While on the one hand, I enjoy the spectacle of the pattern matching wars (kind of like a car crash you can't look away from), very few here actually do it successfully, to a consistently high level.

My personal aesthetic tends more towards clean minimalism, with maybe 2-3 patterns max (implying I am also fine with all solids/single pattern), and more subtle patterns at that. Minimalist, but not full-blown conservative business dress austerity.

I think it takes someone with a lot of confidence and/or bluster foo: ) to enter a hornet's nest and begin and perhaps make some unpopular suggestions. spectre has tried that, only his approach was a bit brusque to say the least, and not particularly constructive. If a couple of influential members enter the nest together, and have each others' backs, I think they'd find more people willing to emerge from the darkened corners to voice their support (I know of at least a few respected members who have privately confided to me they think the complicated pattern thing has gone a bit over the top). Not that I'm advocating an SF revolution (a subtle shifting of the tide perhaps), but I think the exuberance could be tempered a bit, particularly by noobs who charge out of the gate trying to become the next Spoo or Braddock (not suggesting the 2 have similar styles, just that they are among the more expressive dressers here).

Attempting to master the basics always seems a good rule of thumb (I'm still trying).

I'm always surprised when I start to read a thread and then I realize how many of the participants are retailers. I wonder if this has a deterrent effect on discussions -- not in a nefarious way, but just that open, back-and-forth discussion will lead to criticisms that would be commercially uncomfortable. But surely the main thing crowding out good discussions is just the sheer proportion of members who are uninformed, which is probably the inevitable result of any hobbyist forum being around long enough. I guess if this site had kept commercial interests more in the background, it would have been a good thing, but probably not a saving grace.
I think your point resolves an apparent contradiction in what I'm saying: that the site is lacking both enough members with first-hand traditional clothing knowledge and from people who've drunk too deeply from the "first-generation" posters. I value the non-Internet-mediated knowledge more. It's the River Lethe coursing through all of our lives.

Interesting observations. As I imply above, the more involvement by more knowledgable members (possibly yourself?) may help to steer the ship in a truer direction.

I do agree that with longevity and greater visibility, a place like this can become somewhat overpopulated with new, uninformed participants who might do better to listen more and comment less (I sometimes still feel that about myself). And I can see how this proliferation could be a turnoff to longstanding members accustomed to a more rarified atmosphere. So it goes.

 

[Isolation]

tbh I really liked Claghorn's fu jacket outfit.

idk if anyone is thinking of that one in reference to this discussion.

 

[LA Guy]

For all the talk of the good old days, mostly, what we had more of six or seven years ago was nerdy discussion. In the earliest days of the forum, there were actually a lot more truly hardcore hobbyists. It wasn't all about bespoke. Thrifting was a huge thing, as was super high end designer stuff. All this co-existed on the same forum - SWD did not make an appearance until about 2003. There was one guy who had an incredible collection of Jhane Bharnes knitwear, which, in its earliest days, was a lot like Missoni. He is still on here, occasionally, lurking. We can still do that today. That the conversation for a number of years veered towards bespoke, and stayed there a while, was in large part, a Manton thing. That, and his rather conservative, but well thought out opinions, are appealing and accessible to a lot of men, so that voice rose above many others, for a numer of years. Manton and I still chat regularly, and I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that he slowed down his posting primarily because he "only has that much to say about clothing." These days, he is applying his intense nerdiness to other things, and I say that with much love. And, incidentally, although he hold pretty strong opinions, he is also not above trying new things and adjusting his opinions.

I also know itsstillamatt - he is a personal friend, and one of the guys I try to make sure to eat dinner with every time I am in San Francisco. He loves crazy pattern jackets, and wears them well. He also has, and has extensive knowledge, of designer clothing. So, his personal style is Rubinacci-esque, but I would call him dogmatic about it, although he is usually amused at my extensive sneaker collection. Both of those guys, and a few more of the "luminaries" of which you speak, dropped off in their posting mostly because it's hard to post continually about a single subject for 12+ years. Think about it. That is a mid-career academic. Actually, mid-career anything except for "congressman", I think. There were some that had issues with the direction of the forum, but those are the exception, rather than the norm.

I occasionally get emails from old members, and invariably, the emails read something like "I haven't been on the forum forever - I sorta dropped off after getting married/a new job/moving to a new area. I was looking up something about X brand. It's great to see how the forum has grown and really evolved since I was on there." That growth and evolution is due to you guys. Yeah, we used to have some pretty awesome posters who have dropped off, but on the plus side, we have even more really great members, and a larger group, these days. Yeah, it's fun to read Manton's dissertations on drape. But don't discount or undervalue what you guys are doing now.

Cheers,

Fok.

`

 

[Tried and True]

Another vote for #1.

 

[AJL]



tbh I really liked Claghorn's fu jacket outfit.

idk if anyone is thinking of that one in reference to this discussion.

Funny you should mention that, because clags tends to be one of the more excellent, consistent dressers here. The FU jacket is a bit outside his norm, though he and many others seem to enjoy it (I am on the fence about it, though will add it's not at all an easy piece to combine. I think he has hits and misses with it).

Still, it's good to explore beyond one's comfort zone on occasion.