HOF: What Are You Wearing Right Now - Part IV (starting May 2014)

[Pingson]



I think both emptym and edmorel make great points. There is however a weird notion on this forum (and others as well), that if you've proven that you've got the right gear you're free to act like an asshole to everyone else (some revered bespoke clad SF posters come to mind). I have zero problem with criticism and think most of us would welcome more of the kind, presented in a decent manner.

But, as of lately I really try and follow this rule: If you wouldn't say something to someone's face, then don't post it on an internet forum. I don't think I'm particularly sensitive, it's just a question of civility.

A great motto to live by and something that is sorely needed on most internet fora.

Edit. Unrelated question: Is there any way of seeing when someone quotes your name (i.e. @EFV)?

I get an email notification every time I get quoted (properly with the @ sign). The setting for this is somewhere in you personal page - probably called notifications or something like that.

 

[kulata]

@emptym I believe everyone should strive to dress better but the road to that does not necessarily have to be via bespoke. Some people just don't need bespoke (good genes) or it's simply impractical when you consider real time and budget constraint. It's a big tent and no approach is better, people should just learn to appreciate the diversity we have here and recognize good fits across a broad spectrum. No need to denigrate people the way @spectre went about with his criticism.

 

[in stitches]



I think you've demonstrated well the divide. But I'd like to challenge you on the thought that neither is better. Let's push further in the direction of the second group you mention. If we do, we get into Hermes Man territory. I think one reason people love to make fun of him is that he holds up a mirror to a part of us we don't want to admit exists.

I think perhaps you misunderstood Clags point, or at least read it differently than I did. Well, maybe you read it right, and maybe I just have a slightly different opinion than he does.

I agree about what he said that he feels there has been an uptick in peoples focus on the individual items. But I do not take that to mean that the focus is on the individual items in a vacuum, but rather, the individual items as a whole, and I think it probably has a lot do with the things that the Good Taste Thread brought into focus. As I see it, there has truly been a strong push to look at the individual items through the lens of how they all play together. Fit is a given. No one here will ague that a proper fit is needed, and the standards of proper fit are pretty much agreed upon, with a certain degree of variance for things like break, suppression and the like.

I think that most people correct fit first, as its usually the most glaring issue when it is off. Its also fairly easy to correct through understanding your proper size and using a decent tailor. The next step, the requirement to pair things well, I believe is much harder, because it forces you to retrain your eye. Is the tie right for the shirt? How about the PS? Are the textures working or fighting, and how about the formality? I think these are of prime importance. The fact of the matter is, that most people do not want to dress in an uber simple fashion. Sure, spectres fits were nice, but most people do not want to dress that way, its too sedate for them.

The question then becomes, ok, how can I do that well?

When spectre made his critiques, his suggestion was to dial back, do less. Sure, that is an option, but there is another option. To work with patterns well. To take individual items that you like, and understand how to execute them. What to wear them with. What loud item requires sedate items around it, and what loud items can work with other interesting pieces. When have I gone OTT and when have I successfully paired items I like in a way that looks good?

Personally, I am usually going to stop at one or two patterned items, because I usually feel that more than that is forced for me, and more likely than not it will end up bad. At that point, whatever satisfaction I may have got from wearing an item I love, is lost in the displeasure that the look as a whole is bad. That is just me though. Look at TTO, more often than not he is loaded with patterns, and by large majority he looks great.

To that end, if someone wants some color in their closet, what they need to learn is not how to not wear color and patterns, but how to wear them well.

There are a lot of ways to dress. Solids, patterns, conservative, dandy, Italian, British, American trad..., and they all have merit, and they can all look great. Ed said, its your money, do what makes you happy. I would take that a little further and say, its your money, do what makes you happy, and learn how to do it well.

SF is not for everyone. Although I feel that that we do allow for a very broad range of looks here, as listed above, its still a fairly rigid community. In my opinion, it makes people better not worse, but that does not mean that its for everyone. Maybe for those people we can leave it at, its your money do what makes you happy, but for people devoted to looking better, I dont think it should stop there.

As far as consumerism, I don't think that the above approach will lead to a lemming like crew of Hermes man's. We all love nicer stuff, so in a way we have bought into consumerism, but that is not by nature a bad road to travel as long as you are being thoughtful about what you are buying and how to use it. As a matter of fact, I cant think of a single current poster that simply throws on items from cool brands and gets any love here.

One principle widespread on the forum is to buy fewer things but better things: Upgrade from those glued shoes to welted, from fused suits to canvased, etc. Members typically have little trouble making this move to a step or two above the general public. The peer pressure to do so is enormous here. But then we tend to stop. And we tend to start acquiring more and more of things at this mediocre level. As the peer pressure to move up to this level was enormous, so it is to accumulate many of these goods.

I could not agree more with this. I think that most people here would be very surprised at the size of my wardrobe. The only things that I think I have in true excess are shirts and ties. I spent a lot of time buying all kinds of things. In a way i regret it, but in a way it was the path I needed to take to get where I am. I have sold off a tremendous amount of things I have bought since finding SF.

My goal continues to be to have a well curated closet, with items that I am confident in their quality, that are versatile enough to wear in a variety of combinations, and that appeal to my tastes in some kind of weird aesthetically romantic way. To push for greater excellence in what I have, and how I can use them. Not just simply to have more pretty things.

 

[Cleav]

FC apols x post

Checkmate(s)

 

[spectre]



Thank you for posting. From what I can tell from those small pics, both suits seem to fit well and the fabrics look nice too. As others have already noted, both fits could benefit from taller shirt collars. The dull, sedate impression that's been mentioned by others may well be caused by precisely those shirt collars. IMHO, too low collars make the wearer look tired and old, while a nice tall collar gives the wearer a much more dynamic and confident air. A simple white linen PS would have enhanced both looks as well, I think. Maybe you've taken your minimalism one step too far, in this respect. Goes to show that the simplification of anything is not always sensational, but most likely not bad.

I understand your comment but they are just very bad angled pics. The shirt collars - these are cutaways - and my semi spreads in fact have high stands - the highest my shirtmaker producers. There is a lot of collar showing all around the lapels but it just doesn't look like it. High stand collars are a must with me.

As to the rest, there is no yellow whatsoever in the grey chalk stripe. All my suits and jackets have been made for me with medium shirring at the sleevehead, three roll two with MOP buttons mainly. They are in flannel, several cashmere and tropical worsted for Australian summers.

I am conservative, I agree, with my wardrobe concentrating on seasonal grey and navy - but within the grey for example there is chalk stripe as you see, a glen plaid with no overcheck and houndstooth.

Yesterday I broke out and ordered a Loro Piana light tan heavyweight pure cashmere twill fabric for an odd jacket, three patch pocket, lining only in the sleeves and a little at the top and no shoulder padding.

It's amazing, like a heavy shirt.

I know I came on heavy earlier but it is amazing how many combinations you can get from solid or very subtle patterned suits, shirts and ties within a narrow colour palette.

 

[spectre]



+1

Fit isn't the best either.

The fit is absolutely flawless, you just can't see it, so I'm not sure what you base your assumption on.

 

[Monkeyface]

Some conservative business dress. Midnight blue, navy and pink. The pink shirt works wonders for my complexion with this suit.

 

[emptym]

EFV, I agree that really nothing gives one a reason to be jerk, neither the fact that one owns bespoke nor the fact that someone else was a jerk first.

Kulata, I too am all for as big a tent as possible. I was an early defender of Spoo, Neofinitia, Brad (SWD) and others. I also agree with you in particular that bespoke is not the be all and end all. But I think there are many more reasons to get bespoke than imperfect physiques. And while you're right that time and money can be barriers to bespoke, I think there is a strong pull in our culture and in the forum towards instant gratification. This is not an indictment of anyone in particular, certainly not you whom I only know from your great fits. Rather, I think this pull (and its consequences to society and the environment) is something we should all keep in mind when making decisions. We do have the freedom to do what we want with our money. But we should use such freedom responsibly.

IS, that's good to hear. Shirts and ties are easy ways to "buy in" to the hoopla and chuminess of SF and so accumulation there is common among noobs.
A key thing I disagree with in what you wrote is this:

I think that most people correct fit first, as its usually the most glaring issue when it is off. Its also fairly easy to correct through understanding your proper size and using a decent tailor. The next step, the requirement to pair things well, I believe is much harder, because it forces you to retrain your eye.

I think people can easily identify and correct glaring issues in fit. But to there are so many other nuances to fit that it too requires much training of the eye, perhaps even more than coordination of color, pattern and texture. For example, edmorel mentioned that spectre's pics showed an armhole that wasn't too high. How he could tell this, I don't know. I certainly don't think he was making it up though. I trust that his eye and understanding are more developed than mine, which I admit, regarding armhole height does not surpass the common forum "rule" that higher is better.

This call for continuous improvement, refinement, etc. is something good that spectre has brought to the thread, though I agree completely that his could use the same improvement. He has admitted this as well via pm and hopefully will continue to work at it.

Too often we think we have arrived, whereas we are always on the way. I'm sure everyone would nod their heads to this. But Imo it would be good if we tried more to keep it at the forefront of our consciousness.

 

[spectre]



Oh, you may well be right that any of them could pull it off (with the possible exception of AAS whose style, outrageous as it sometimes may seem, is actually rather preppy - as the link you provided recently illustrated), but I still won't like it. That's all I was saying: I think it's a hideous jacket. I understand that in the context of resort wear and such it might make sense, but pretty it aint. At least to my eyes....


Yup, @spectre
's fits are not bad and I think many here will appreciate it that he has been man enough to actually post his pics. I think quite a few people in his situation would have quietly left the scene - with their tail between their legs. That being said, I would appreciate it even more if he were man enough to admit that those snide remarks and his denigrating generalizations about SF were uncalled for. As his fits show, it's much better to let your pics do the talking. Anyway, I hope we can all leave this episode behind us now and enjoy the variety of fits that are being posted here.

(Actually, seeing the full pics, I think I don't care much for the tie in the first pic, but that's probably just a matter of preference).

Good call on the tie. I don't wear it anymore.

 

[spectre]



Oh man I like that suit!! I will gladly overlook the apparent shortness of the shirt collar due to the awesomeness of the suit shoulder. Has the make of this suit already been identified ?

All my stuff made for me in Melbourne. Shop is soon to open in New York and LA.

 

[spectre]



@emptym I believe everyone should strive to dress better but the road to that does not necessarily have to be via bespoke. Some people just don't need bespoke (good genes) or it's simply impractical when you consider real time and budget constraint. It's a big tent and no approach is better, people should just learn to appreciate the diversity we have here and recognize good fits across a broad spectrum. No need to denigrate people the way @spectre went about with his criticism.

I agree with all of this, including my initial approach.

 

[in stitches]



A key thing I disagree with in what you wrote is this:
I think people can easily identify and correct glaring issues in fit. But to there are so many other nuances to fit that it too requires much training of the eye, perhaps even more than coordination of color, pattern and texture. For example, edmorel mentioned that spectre's pics showed an armhole that wasn't too high. How he could tell this, I don't know. I certainly don't think he was making it up though. I trust that his eye and understanding are more developed than mine, which I admit, regarding armhole height does not surpass the common forum "rule" that higher is better.

This call for continuous improvement, refinement, etc. is something good that spectre has brought to the thread, though I agree completely that his could use the same improvement. He has admitted this as well via pm and hopefully will continue to work at it.

Too often we think we have arrived, whereas we are always on the way. I'm sure everyone would nod their heads to this. But Imo it would be good if we tried more to keep it at the forefront of our consciousness.

Oh, there are no shortages of nuances when it comes to fit. Its a major factor in why I have been shying away strongly from buying things I am not 100% sure on fit from prior experience with that brand and cut, and even really gearing towards custom/bespoke. It means I have less stuff because it costs more, but it pays out in spades for me. Its amazing what you can do with a handful of suits/SCs/pants when you have a variety of ties and shirts. Spectre essentially just said that.

However, what I meant was, that I think that getting into the realm of a good fit is usually the first step, and I do not think that is terribly hard. Whereas taking patterned/colored/textured items and trying to work them out, has at least been for me, a more difficult endeavor. It takes a lot more thought for most people imo. And if you want to stick with more "interesting" items and not fail, I think that is where you really need to focus on the nuances, its not good enough to be in the realm when you have so many moving pieces, you really need to nail it down to not screw up.

Idk. They are both highly and equally important, and I did not mean to downplay the need for proper fit, I just think its easier to get into that realm of good fit than it is to play with patterns well. The nuances of both can certainly extend very very far.

 

[emptym]



However, what I meant was, that I think that getting into the realm of a good fit is usually the first step, and I do not think that is terribly hard...

Yes, and what I meant was that you may underestimate the depth of the realm of good fit and how hard it is to mine those depths.

Idk. They are both highly and equally important, and I did not mean to downplay the need for proper fit, I just think its easier to get into that realm of good fit than it is to play with patterns well. The nuances of both can certainly extend very very far.

Glad you're starting to come around! Full conversions do take time. Just know that I am here for you on the tough road ahead.

 

[in stitches]



Yes, and what I meant was that you may underestimate the depth of the realm of good fit and how hard it is to mine those depths.

lol. i dont think i underestimate them.

this could just be me personally, but lets assume we are talking about someone who wants to incorporate color/pattern play. i think for that person, if he enters the realm of proper fit, even if he has not plummeted its depths, but he has a solid handle on color/pattern play, will look a lot better than a guy who nailed fit to the ground, but has only a rudimentary understanding of color/pattern play.

obviously the goal is to understand it all as much and as deeply as possible, as that person will inevitable look the best.

Glad you're starting to come around! Full conversions do take time. Just know that I am here for you on the tough road ahead.

some people just need to take a windy road. happy you are here for me, baby.

 

[Oneflewover]

Last night, I made a tie tying video. I went out to dinner afterwards so I changed my outfit a bit.



Tying a Double Four-In-Hand: Tie Knots from Acute Style on Vimeo.

Video just needed Fonz type thumbs up to be complete

Really like all your fits. Would copy all but i'm the other side of the coin lighter, fatter and balder!

Thanks