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HOF: What Are You Wearing Right Now - Part III

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Mr.K, Mar 25, 2011.

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  1. Edgar Allan Pwn

    Edgar Allan Pwn Senior member

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    Tjeezus. Save this thread. Newbs, if you don't get it, ask questions. PG answers them & will give you better advice than your momma, who loves you. No one loves you here, so if you need clarification, ask for it. And...NDW dresses better than 98% of dudes here, including me. So does Ethan and Nii. Listen to them & master the rules according to your shape. It's only after you master the rules that you can go crazy.
    Answer me honestly; do you really think comments like "you are not ready" and "you've got bigger problems" are in the least bit helpful? I've been taking in as much as I can from a lot of people here (PG included, as well as yourself, UC), and I am more than prepared to take it on the chin when I fuck up a fit as long as the comment is helpful. But honestly, if everyone here posted comments similar to what PG has been posting lately, you'd be driving off the noobs in droves. Like I said, nothing but respect for PGs style. It's undeniable. But he's being a dick. And you know what? I could deal with that too, but he's not being the least bit helpful. The least he could have done was to be specific about what's wrong with the fits he commented on. If he can't be bothered to do that much, he shouldn't comment at all. PG, if I post a fit, you can call me every name under the sun, tell me I am genetically incapable of being stylish, call in to question my mothers moral integrity and the true identity of my father, make fun of my short legs, my fat ass, my stupid hair, and although I generally blur my face out I also have a bit of a unibrow which you could also make fun of... You could just lay right into me, and as long as you tell me specifically what I'm doing wrong, I'll be genuinely grateful.
     


  2. Navi

    Navi Senior member

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    Answer me honestly; do you really think comments like "you are not ready" and "you've got bigger problems" are in the least bit helpful?

    I've been taking in as much as I can from a lot of people here (PG included, as well as yourself, UC), and I am more than prepared to take it on the chin when I fuck up a fit as long as the comment is helpful. But honestly, if everyone here posted comments similar to what PG has been posting lately, you'd be driving off the noobs in droves.

    Like I said, nothing but respect for PGs style. It's undeniable. But he's being a dick. And you know what? I could deal with that too, but he's not being the least bit helpful. The least he could have done was to be specific about what's wrong with the fits he commented on. If he can't be bothered to do that much, he shouldn't comment at all.

    PG, if I post a fit, you can call me every name under the sun, tell me I am genetically incapable of being stylish, call in to question my mothers moral integrity and the true identity of my father, make fun of my short legs, my fat ass, my stupid hair, and although I generally blur my face out I also have a bit of a unibrow which you could also make fun of... You could just lay right into me, and as long as you tell me specifically what I'm doing wrong, I'll be genuinely grateful.


    you've got fire in ya eyes boy! RIP THAT FIT UP SON[​IMG]

    maybe PG should just post inspirational quotes from like karate kid and rocky instead?
     


  3. bloke11

    bloke11 Well-Known Member

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    Answer me honestly; do you really think comments like "you are not ready" and "you've got bigger problems" are in the least bit helpful?

    I've been taking in as much as I can from a lot of people here (PG included, as well as yourself, UC), and I am more than prepared to take it on the chin when I fuck up a fit as long as the comment is helpful. But honestly, if everyone here posted comments similar to what PG has been posting lately, you'd be driving off the noobs in droves.

    Like I said, nothing but respect for PGs style. It's undeniable. But he's being a dick. And you know what? I could deal with that too, but he's not being the least bit helpful. The least he could have done was to be specific about what's wrong with the fits he commented on. If he can't be bothered to do that much, he shouldn't comment at all.

    PG, if I post a fit, you can call me every name under the sun, tell me I am genetically incapable of being stylish, call in to question my mothers moral integrity and the true identity of my father, make fun of my short legs, my fat ass, my stupid hair, and although I generally blur my face out I also have a bit of a unibrow which you could also make fun of... You could just lay right into me, and as long as you tell me specifically what I'm doing wrong, I'll be genuinely grateful.


    Anyone can post anything in this thread and PG isn't really mean in the first place. He's just saying something is wrong with the outfit though he could choose to be more specific, but screw it. This ain't helpdesk. If one is bothered with short comments like these, one shouldn't even bother posting any pictures. Moar lurking, less posting if one is offended.
     


  4. Edgar Allan Pwn

    Edgar Allan Pwn Senior member

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    Anyone can post anything in this thread and PG isn't really mean in the first place. He's just saying something is wrong with the outfit though he could choose to be more specific, but screw it. This ain't helpdesk. If one is bothered with short comments like these, one shouldn't even bother posting any pictures. Moar lurking, less posting if one is offended.
    Yeah good point. I just need to lurk "moar" and then I won't feel the need to side with the people being insulted by PG for no good reason. It's all so obvious now! Thanks for showing me the error of my ways, forums veteran bloke11.
     


  5. Pieceofsand

    Pieceofsand Senior member

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    This, too, will pass.




    On the side note..when senior members are able to lay out specif reasons why the fit did not work, it will help a lot of new beginners. After all, we're all individuals from around the world, we shared a similar interest, we're here to learn from each other and advance among ourselves.

    If you're good at something, to a certain limited degree, you have the license and right to be arrogant. You've earn your stripes from the battles you've fought; however, there is a time and place to be arrogant when there is a need to. The power is within, whether to use or abuse, this- has always been my instrument to measure and indicate between a man and a boy.

    Keep in mind I do appreciate many of you senior members who provided useful insights in relation to how to dress. Regardless of delivery, criticism to others for their own benefit, you'd have my respect. Criticism to others for the fulfillment of your own ego, I really feel sorry for you.
     


  6. NOBD

    NOBD Senior member

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    On the side note..when senior members are able to lay out specif reasons why the fit did not work, it will help a lot of new beginners.
    I think the trick is to accept (swallow, laugh away... whatever feels appropriate) the initial 'harsh' comment and then ask specifically what the other thinks is wrong, in stead of keep focussing on the first short and possibly snarky comment.
     


  7. mmkn

    mmkn Senior member

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    ^ The more developed one becomes in the clothing world, the more one is susceptible to the highly contagious dick disease. No one is excluded.

    The "trick," if any, is to leave the clothing world for awhile until it passes within oneself.

    Gentleman, genitalman . . . one chooses.

    - M
     


  8. Holdfast

    Holdfast Senior member

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    Everyone is on a learning curve. There isn't any obligation to give a polite & educational critique. It's quite tiring to do so. Almost every longer-term poster still does it occasionally, because we enjoy talking about clothes, but most of the time it's too much effort. The good news is you don't actually need it in order to improve. If you're really interested, take time to review your own fits. Compare your fits to people (here or IRL) whose aesthetic matches your ideal. Run through the aesthetic differences in your mind. I routinely find aspects I wouldn't repeat in about 35+% of my fits. Importantly, my assessment can differ from SF consensus (viz. the perennial critiques I get for looseness/jacket length, neither is changing any time soon) but the point is not whether you agree with the consensus but whether you work to actively improve your fits by applying thought, or just keep posting random pics of whatever's currently in your wardrobe, with lots of new stuff that SF has inspired you to buy added on top! Plenty of people would never want to wear my fits, but they can't deny that there's a thought process there (even if they think it's mad/distasteful) with an aesthetic target in mind. Developing that very personal perspective is crucial, because you know your own aims best. That's the real benefit of the thread - forcing yourself to take photos, look at them critically and iteratively improve. It's NOT the critiques you get from others. Just from reading the board you should be able to develop a "language of clothes" to begin the work for yourself. I have years of saved photos and when look back at what I posted at the start, and compare it to now, there's a massive learning curve there. In another couple of years, I'll look at what I'm wearing now and will probably be equally horrified. And occasionally, I look back and see a really clever concept I'd forgotten. Overall, the trajectory is one I'm happy with. Every longer-term poster has the same ongoing evolutionary iterative process towards their own particular niche (and I do not exclude some of the very established posters who others consider a finished endpoint eg Manton, vox, or PG). Work on your own process; don't post fits without a concept. This is why the CBD thread is a useful companion thread, and why I like the Friday Challenges: each of them encourage the basic idea that it is valuable to have a concept behind your fits. Ideally, you shouldn't need either CBD constraints or a Challenge theme to force a conceptual approach. Even those advocating a minimalist/basic wardrobe that requires little selection process in the morning are still in fact using a very conceptual approach to dressing. What is most disappointing to see in this thread is not a bad fit, but a thoughtless one.
     


  9. Mr. Moo

    Mr. Moo Boxercise Toughguy

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    PG is a good guy. He's answered more pms than most noobs have fun pairs of socks. Two years ago he was pretty much Spoo and vox rolled into a wonton wrapper with polka dotted silk on it. Pardon him if he doesn't want to spend billable hours posting thank you's and you look great's.
     


  10. SpooPoker

    SpooPoker Internet Bigtimer and Most Popular Man on Campus Dubiously Honored Affiliate Vendor

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    PG is a good guy. He's answered more pms than most noobs have fun pairs of socks. Two years ago he was pretty much Spoo and vox rolled into a wonton wrapper with polka dotted silk on it. Pardon him if he doesn't want to spend billable hours posting thank you's and you look great's.

    [​IMG]
     


  11. Pieceofsand

    Pieceofsand Senior member

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    By the way, my comment did not direct at anyone in specific.
     


  12. NOBD

    NOBD Senior member

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  13. Edgar Allan Pwn

    Edgar Allan Pwn Senior member

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    PG is a good guy. He's answered more pms than most noobs have fun pairs of socks. Two years ago he was pretty much Spoo and vox rolled into a wonton wrapper with polka dotted silk on it. Pardon him if he doesn't want to spend billable hours posting thank you's and you look great's.

    If he has time to comment at all he has time to do so with some civility. /derail
     


  14. MaybeItsHate

    MaybeItsHate Member

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    Everyone is on a learning curve. There isn't any obligation to give a polite & educational critique. It's quite tiring to do so. Almost every longer-term poster still does it occasionally, because we enjoy talking about clothes, but most of the time it's too much effort. The good news is you don't actually need it in order to improve.
    I'm in agreement with you over this but I think you are not addressing the fact that it takes just as much effort, if not more, to type a scathing one liner as it does to just hold ones tongue. You're right, there's no obligation to help; why are some unable to exercise that right?
    If you're really interested, take time to review your own fits. Compare your fits to people (here or IRL) whose aesthetic matches your ideal. Run through the aesthetic differences in your mind. I routinely find aspects I wouldn't repeat in about 35+% of my fits. Importantly, my assessment can differ from SF consensus (viz. the perennial critiques I get for looseness/jacket length, neither is changing any time soon) but the point is not whether you agree with the consensus but whether you work to actively improve your fits by applying thought, or just keep posting random pics of whatever's currently in your wardrobe, with lots of new stuff that SF has inspired you to buy added on top! What is most disappointing to see in this thread is not a bad fit, but a thoughtless one.
    I think that this is well intentioned, but again, I would doubt that anyone bold enough to attempt to post here hasn't already done this. It's part of the nature of being a beginner to make mistakes. Perhaps you didn't intend it but I do find the suggestion implicit to this idea, that one should make a greater attempt to 'arrive' (observe SF sartorial standards) before being eligible to post, rather troubling because if held as reasonable it encourages newcomers to defer the point at which they engage with a discourse and as a consequence deprives the individual of a feeling of the right to participate, which is a fundamental right. I would be interested to hear your idea of the precise point at which someone is ready to contribute? How would they know? I can understand the wearied expressions of this encore les amateurs!!! mindset, but this is the internet after all.
     


  15. mktitsworth

    mktitsworth Senior member

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    Everyone is on a learning curve. There isn't any obligation to give a polite & educational critique. It's quite tiring to do so. Almost every longer-term poster still does it occasionally, because we enjoy talking about clothes, but most of the time it's too much effort. The good news is you don't actually need it in order to improve.

    If you're really interested, take time to review your own fits.

    Compare your fits to people (here or IRL) whose aesthetic matches your ideal. Run through the aesthetic differences in your mind. I routinely find aspects I wouldn't repeat in about 35+% of my fits. Importantly, my assessment can differ from SF consensus (viz. the perennial critiques I get for looseness/jacket length, neither is changing any time soon) but the point is not whether you agree with the consensus but whether you work to actively improve your fits by applying thought, or just keep posting random pics of whatever's currently in your wardrobe, with lots of new stuff that SF has inspired you to buy added on top!


    Very well said sir. As week before last's whipping boy who drowned in work last week, I have spent some of my procrastination time going back through the photos and criticisms I received. Whether I agree with them or not, I have endeavored to understand why I received them.

    That said, until someone knows what they're looking for, the likelihood that they will be able to improve purely based upon personal examination is variable - even when provided with other examples of similar build and style. A true inherent understanding of the aesthetic is a very rare thing indeed, however as Richard Feynman proved, much of it can be learned. Learning generally requires both positive and negative feedback. Moreover, while it is possible to learn using a passive approach, by which I mean here only studying your fits and the fits of others, it is far more effective to learn with feedback from multiple sources. Here what I really want to do is use the example of machine learning systems which leverage multiple paradigms and types of algorithms for the purpose of improving output, but that would probably be esoteric and most people would not be able to relate. So...

    For myself, I liken learning about clothes, fit, and all of this to learning theatrical improvisation. At the outset I could watch my early shows and not see or at least understand what was wrong. It required the notes of an experienced director for me to be able to understand what I was looking at. Once I had gained an understanding I could then learn how to improve on my own. Assuming that someone will have the innate talent for this understanding doesn't seem like a reasonable expectation. I have and will go through all of my photos and get a sense for what I think is right or wrong ahead of time. Still, I expect to be blasted regarding their content because there is a plethora of what I don't yet know, and as I am in most ways here anonymous, I don't expect anyone's kindness or emotional attachment.

    Plenty of people would never want to wear my fits, but they can't deny that there's a thought process there (even if they think it's mad/distasteful) with an aesthetic target in mind. Developing that very personal perspective is crucial, because you know your own aims best.

    That's the real benefit of the thread - forcing yourself to take photos, look at them critically and iteratively improve. It's NOT the critiques you get from others. Just from reading the board you should be able to develop a "language of clothes" to begin the work for yourself. I have years of saved photos and when look back at what I posted at the start, and compare it to now, there's a massive learning curve there. In another couple of years, I'll look at what I'm wearing now and will probably be equally horrified. And occasionally, I look back and see a really clever concept I'd forgotten. Overall, the trajectory is one I'm happy with. Every longer-term poster has the same ongoing evolutionary iterative process towards their own particular niche (and I do not exclude some of the very established posters who others consider a finished endpoint eg Manton, vox, or PG).

    Work on your own process; don't post fits without a concept. This is why the CBD thread is a useful companion thread, and why I like the Friday Challenges: each of them encourage the basic idea that it is valuable to have a concept behind your fits. Ideally, you shouldn't need either CBD constraints or a Challenge theme to force a conceptual approach. Even those advocating a minimalist/basic wardrobe that requires little selection process in the morning are still in fact using a very conceptual approach to dressing.

    What is most disappointing to see in this thread is not a bad fit, but a thoughtless one.


    [​IMG] Well said again sir. Again I think that in order to be able to look at your own work and see how to improve upon it requires a certain minimum level of understanding. Which I do not mean to say can't be done without feedback, but feedback certainly speeds this process along. This is why I still like the idea of a "Beginner WAYWRN" because it would allow for this level of understanding to be obtained in an environment specifically for that. While I'm sure the egos of some would not stand to be called beginners, that would be their loss. At the same time, I also think there's a lot of information out there already which may not always be utilized. I think the idea of a concept is an excellent one that I will take to heart. It sounds like a useful tool to have in one's tool box.
     


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