can't put my finger on it, though when i compare it to your c&j, i'm missing something. I think I know what you mean, fritzl. It's in the details. The waist of the C&J's (I'm thinking of the Belgrave–337 last) is a bit more pronounced, and the curvy stitch lines along the sides are more fluent; those lines are more angular on the Greve's. All in all, the C&J's are a touch more elegant, but don't fit me as well, unfortunately, hence the MTM experiment. I'll do a one on one photo comparison with my Belgraves one day.