Hilditch and Key / Turnbull and Asser

[nickyboy]

A lot of what's said about these two brands here seems to be a bit out of date, Jermyn St is changing and since I have bought RTW from both in the 2014 winter sales, and both have been worn, washed and worn again, here's my view. I don't buy double cuffs because my pirate days are over and my cutlass is in the closet.

Fit
H&K now offer one fit only. This is the same as T&A, since T&A slim fit is not made for humans and should only be bought by some visiting alien race of stick insects. The two fits are similar, except the waist seems a bit narrower on T&A. I prefer T&A, by a whisker.
T&A shirts have in standard size a slightly longer (by 1/2 inch) sleeve in some sizes, all on the websites.
fit of course is totally personal.
Both makes, a little loose in the cuff, a bit extra under the arms but otherwise very good, for me at least. a joy to wear. Sleeves don't ride up under a jacket.

Price.
Comparable. H&K have increased prices to match T&A closely. In sale 75GBP for H&K, 90 for T&A or 80 if buy three. more is accepted for silly stuff.

Seams.
Both single needle machine stitch (AFAIK). T&A have the double row of stitches on the outside, single inside. H&K vice versa. I prefer T&A.Feels nicer, and unless people stick their head under your armpit they couldn't tell.
H&K had several loose threads from buttons and seams. Can't be sure if these are a problem for longevity yet but they should not be there anyway. T&A shirts are pristine.
stitches per inch seem to be about the same at around 20.

Plackets.
Front placket on T&A shirt is flatter and on some shirts seems to be an extra piece stitched on. On others, the main section folded over. On H&K all is folded. Both are fine. T&A just seems crisper, not sure why.

Sleeve plackets.
Here I don't know what T&A have done. H&K clearly have folded over and sewed on the mitre point, it's fine, a bit bulky. T&A is flush and slick. I wonder about longevity but I don't know how they did this. T&A preferred easily, they appear to have done with a single fold what took H&K two folds. Since this is on the forearm where you might rest, you really can feel it, apart from just see it. H&K should look at this I think. If someone gave me two shirts and asked me to guess the maker, this is where I would go and within a second could distinguish T&A from H&K. (ok the T&A gusset or 3 button cuff also gives it away but that's a deliberate maker's mark).
T&A haven't bothered to match the pattern though, whereas H&K matches pretty much spot on. I kinda like T&A slapdash approach, but maybe this is just me being biased in favour of T&A(I'd not like this in bespoke). We might see more of that later.

Collars
Comparable. your choice.

length
Same at the back, T&A a bit shorter at the front. both generous and sufficient. Gussets are pretty much in same place.

Cuffs
T&A have the famous 3 buttons and gathered all round into the cuff. H&K have two buttons, with sleeve gather by 3 pleats. H&K easier to iron, but I prefer T&A, bit classier. Neither have gauntlet buttons, neither appear to need them, hanging perfectly closed without.
T&A cuff wider than H&K. Both are too loose as is typical of RTW, T&A a bit more so. H&K preferred here.
T&A cuff 3/4 inch longer. perhaps too long.

Choice of pattern
T&A exclusives on sale, and some classics. No plain colours. At least four rows, all different. lots of colour
H&K no plain colours, just checks and stripes very limited. very classic. as expected.

cloth
I believe what I bought was all 100s poplin and pretty much identical between brands. lightweight but not at all thin or transparent, feels lovely. Only a year or two would tell if there's a difference. doubt there is. both do 'sea island' (where else would you put an island?) nonsense for people who like to spend even more for no reason. One or both might even say sea island quality for egyptian cotton.I think this is ridiculous and annoying, but since it's all a waste of money I don't much care.

pattern matching
H&K do try at least try to match pattern at sleeve joins. T&A just leave sleeve matching to the gods, or at least they do on checks. On bengals, my T&A matches well at sleeves. I don't think it matters, except maybe on the wider bengals when a mismatch might stand out - you'd be wise to ask or check first.

buttons.
same thickness MOP. couldn't tell them apart. T&A appear to be stitched on better, but I'm no expert. It took six months before the buttons fell off my Thomas Pink shirts. So I'll reserve judgement here, except to advise against Pink. I've had some T&A shirts for several years and never lost a button. Never bought H&K before.

The stores
T&A is awesome as ever, brilliant staff, beautiful wood everywhere, the essence of Jermyn St. the new H&K is horrid, might as well be on New Bond St, or even in Milan. Overlit, cramped and nasty, metal and glass, ugh. Why did they do this? they must have spent some serious money to turn their nice old shop into this new monstrosity, but that appears to be the new Jermyn St. They just don't understand, they are a destination in themselves. Make themselves generic, and we needn't stray from Oxford/regent/Bond streets. Staff as engagingly useless as ever, perhaps blinded by the lights.

So in the end, it's just style. I do think T&A shirts are better made though. If I was buying a classic white poplin shirt, or any other style identical in both, at full price, I'd go T&A over H&K. But I wouldn't do that anyway, I'd get the same thing bespoke for about the same money or less. Which is why I just don't understand this business model of H&K. T&A is all about their patterns. H&K have little that you can't get at Marks and Spenser, the difference is they do it a million times better. But when bespoke is available at ten million times better for roughly the same price ...? I like my H&K shirts a lot (and a lot more than the real p.o.c I bought in a hurry at New and Lingwood but that's another story) I just don't see the value any more. And for bespoke, I'd have gone to the old H&K store, but would hate the new one. these things matter, surely, it's all part of the romance, imagining you're the sultan of Brunei. unless of course, you are.



looking at that all back, I realise it's useless boring nonsense. I like all 4 shirts though, but there are differences and I do believe T&A are a hair better.

 

[TN001]

As usual a search brought up an old topic.

Even though I don’t quite agree with the conclusions, I thought this was a great review.

I figured I would add my two cents, as someone who went from T&A RTW customer to T&A Bespoke to H&K RTW and finally H&K Bespoke.

I always found H&K’s quality (matching stripes, single row of stitching facing the outside) to be as good or better than T&A’s. Add to that the following important (for me) considerations:

1. My last few cocktail cuff T&A shirts had abysmal cuffs. Very thick, poorly wrought cuffs were difficult to fasten. H&K’s are better, although my friend’s Ascot Changs are better still.

2. I don’t like the look of the classic T&A collar, and I think the proportions of H&K’s spread collar are just a little better than T&A’s.

3. T&A’s fit is so slim, while H&K’s off the shelf classic fit fits me well.

4. If you go bespoke, David Gale (formerly of T&A) is at Hilditch now, and he made me the best fitting shirts I ever had - including Charvet Demi-measure and MTM Borelli.

5. While T&A’s shop has way more character than Hilditch’s, I consistently find that the staff are more welcoming and less aloof than at T&A.

Both superb shirts and companies no matter how you look at it.