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Hickey Freeman Mainline versus LTD

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by furo, Apr 7, 2009.

  1. furo

    furo Senior member

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    I called the Hickey Freeman factory in Rochester today and they told me that the difference between HF mainline and HF LTD is the amount of handwork done, and that the LTD suits have less detail and handwork in them.

    Consequently, I asked about the canvassing. She told me that it is untrue that ALL ltd suits are half canvassed or fused. She said that some of the ltd suits are fully canvassed.

    From anyone's experience with RECENT models in the LTD line, is this true, and what are the tell-tale signs that the suit was made half-canvassed or fully-canvassed in Rochester? Because the labeling on the suit itself surely won't tell me.

    She also said, contrary to what I've read by a lot of posters here, that NONE of the HF LTD suits are fused. They are, at the very least, half-canvassed.

    I got my HF LTD suits at Dillard's, for $290 each marked down from $1000 or $1300, but the salesman told me they were all fully canvassed. So if indeed they aren't I'm taking them back and speaking to a store manager about the lies!

    Thanks
     


  2. texas_jack

    texas_jack Senior member

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    not canvassed
     


  3. A Guy from Shanghai

    A Guy from Shanghai Senior member

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  4. furo

    furo Senior member

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    Ltd line is half-canvassed.

    What source of information do you have to support this claim? I'm not trying to be rude, but this is the type of comment that drove me to call the factory in the first place.
     


  5. A Guy from Shanghai

    A Guy from Shanghai Senior member

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    What source of information do you have to support this claim? I'm not trying to be rude, but this is the type of comment that drove me to call the factory in the first place.

    I have come across at least a few HUNDRED HF suits for the last a couple years and pinch tested each and everyone. The results were consistent.
     


  6. furo

    furo Senior member

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    I have come across at least a few HUNDRED HF suits for the last a couple years and pinch tested each and everyone. The results were consistent.

    Interesting. I'll have to call the factory back then and ask what LTD models are actually fully canvassed, since her response was that "some models are half and some are full" within the LTD line.
     


  7. zalb916

    zalb916 Senior member

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    I've probably also handled a few hundred Hickey Freeman suits. I cannot remember one Ltd. suit that was fully canvassed. I couldn't tell you whether they were half canvassed or not, but I've never seen a fully canvassed Ltd. I could certainly be wrong and would expect the factory to be a much better source, but I'm very doubtful that your Ltd. suits are fully canvassed.
     


  8. furo

    furo Senior member

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    I've probably also handled a few hundred Hickey Freeman suits. I cannot remember one Ltd. suit that was fully canvassed. I couldn't tell you whether they were half canvassed or not, but I've never seen a fully canvassed Ltd. I could certainly be wrong and would expect the factory to be a much better source, but I'm very doubtful that your Ltd. suits are fully canvassed.

    I will try a pinch test tonight to find out. If they are truly half-canvassed then I'm hoping the Men's Dept at Dillard's will give me a store credit or something. I don't mind the quality of the suit, but I certainly won't tolerate being lied to by a salesman who is supposed to be a reputable retailer.
     


  9. A Guy from Shanghai

    A Guy from Shanghai Senior member

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    I will try a pinch test tonight to find out. If they are truly half-canvassed then I'm hoping the Men's Dept at Dillard's will give me a store credit or something. I don't mind the quality of the suit, but I certainly won't tolerate being lied to by a salesman who is supposed to be a reputable retailer.

    Sadly, most sales people don't really know what is the difference between full canvass, half canvass, or fused. They think all the suits are canvassed if there is some inner material between the shell fabric and lining[​IMG]

    BTW, unlike mainline, ltd suits do not have any model names, only a model number like Lxxx, Kxxx, and etc.
     


  10. polar-lemon

    polar-lemon Senior member

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    Sadly, most sales people don't really know what is the difference between full canvass, half canvass, or fused. They think all the suits are canvassed if there is some inner material between the shell fabric and lining[​IMG]

    BTW, unlike mainline, ltd suits do not have any model names, only a model number like Lxxx, Kxxx, and etc.


    I've also handled hundreds, and every single Ltd. I've encountered is half-canvassed. None are fused, she was right about that. I've seen HF Ltd. selling in NM of all places. But since HF mainline has no handwork on it anymore, I don't think that could be the defining difference between it and Ltd.
     


  11. Toorman

    Toorman Senior member

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    First, to determine if the suits are fully canvased simply give them the pinch test. Pinch the cloth just below the bottom button and feel for a third (inner or middle) layer. If you feel that distinctive inner layer then your suits arre fully canvassed. If you don't they are not. If owning a fully canvassed suit is so important to you then you need to learn to identify them. If my explanation falls short try the search function. Many salesman are not well versed in the product they sell and simply taking their word for it is rarely a good idea.

    Second, $290 is a great price for a still well made suit. If you like them and they fit well I would consider keeping them. You will not find a fully canvassed "staple" at that price. Yes, the Ralph Lauren outlet seemingly gives there suits away (fully canvassed $4,000 RLPL suits for $290 but consider what you are getting.) You are better off owning a half canvassed staple that you will wear repeatedly than scoring a black, double breasted, cotton suit from an outlet that you will never wear. There are the occasional steals but most are marked down severly for a reason.
     


  12. furo

    furo Senior member

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    First, to determine if the suits are fully canvased simply give them the pinch test. Pinch the cloth just below the bottom button and feel for a third (inner or middle) layer. If you feel that distinctive inner layer then your suits arre fully canvassed. If you don't they are not. If owning a fully canvassed suit is so important to you then you need to learn to identify them. If my explanation falls short try the search function. Many salesman are not well versed in the product they sell and simply taking their word for it is rarely a good idea.

    Good point. The question is whether that store will honor the customer. When it comes to customer service, I rarely take anything for granted. The man is paid to sell suits and be knowledgeable about them. If he lied to me, I will hold him accountable. Then maybe next time some poor guy won't get taken like I did.

    Second, $290 is a great price for a still well made suit. If you like them and they fit well I would consider keeping them. You will not find a fully canvassed "staple" at that price. Yes, the Ralph Lauren outlet seemingly gives there suits away (fully canvassed $4,000 RLPL suits for $290 but consider what you are getting.) You are better off owning a half canvassed staple that you will wear repeatedly than scoring a black, double breasted, cotton suit from an outlet that you will never wear. There are the occasional steals but most are marked down severly for a reason.

    /agreed. Like I said, I think the quality of the suit is great, I just don't like being lied to. What I'd prefer is for Dillard's to give me a store credit or something for selling me suits on a false presumption. That's just bad business and I won't tolerate it.
     


  13. rebel222

    rebel222 Senior member

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    If you are not happy w/ the service, return the suit. I don't think you are entitled to any kind of credit. They are likely loosing money @ the price you paid. Doesn't sound to me like you are a customer they should value very highly. The most that I would expect is an apology.

    Personally, I don't expect the sales representative @ Dillards to be knowledgeable about anything, except for the location of the restroom.
     


  14. A Guy from Shanghai

    A Guy from Shanghai Senior member

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    ...
    Personally, I don't expect the sales representative @ Dillards to be knowledgeable about anything, except for the location of the restroom.


    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     


  15. Toorman

    Toorman Senior member

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    Good point. The question is whether that store will honor the customer. When it comes to customer service, I rarely take anything for granted. The man is paid to sell suits and be knowledgeable about them. If he lied to me, I will hold him accountable. Then maybe next time some poor guy won't get taken like I did.



    /agreed. Like I said, I think the quality of the suit is great, I just don't like being lied to. What I'd prefer is for Dillard's to give me a store credit or something for selling me suits on a false presumption. That's just bad business and I won't tolerate it.


    You would hope the guy selling suits would be knowledgeable it just isn't always the case. By being informed yourself you can quickly determine if the salesperson is knowledgeable and a useful source or clueless and to be avoided. Nonetheless, you were misled and I agree that it doesn't hurt to try and get a store credit. I was just warning not to toss the baby out with the bath water as it's still a good deal if the suits are nice and fit well. If you keep them find a good tailor and have them altered properly. A well fitted half canvassed suit will look much nicer than an ill fitting full canvassed suit.
     


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