Hertling USA to Remain Open for Business!

[dieworkwear]

Situation is pretty straight forward. You get financing and you can keep the doors open to buy time to try and create and implement a viable business plan going forward or you don't get financing and your done.

My guess is that they're trying to sell the company and this latest PR push was an attempt to shore up their image. Just a guess.

 

[jrd617]

Is the factory definitely kaput? Shame, I wanted some new fresco pants

 

[M635Guy]

Is the factory definitely kaput? Shame, I wanted some new fresco pants

I don't think so. Last I heard in the Epaulet thread they'd figured out enough to keep things going.

 

[bry2000]

I reckon it is about time that they cook up another Factory Closing sale to generate some orders.

 

[jrd617]

see below

 

[jrd617]

Looks like @Caustic Man 's title may be vindicated! Gotta give him credit. There was some PR doublespeak but the result is the same as in the title

From the thread mentioned above:

https://www.styleforum.net/threads/epaulet-shop-official-affiliate-thread.111211/page-4508

We ordered a few pairs with Southwick this Fall. I'm considering doing Hertling, but honestly struggling with a bit. A Hertling OTR dress pant in a nice wool is probably going to be about $295 retail. And while our MTO business is stronger than ever, our OTR sales for dressier pants are really hard.

Case in point: we did really beautiful stock Walt's in both navy & grey REDA hopsack last season and had a sort-of impossible time selling through them. Most of the units moved on markdown. But I weirdly have no problem selling that stuff MTO. If anything, we sold MORE custom Walts in those fabrics than we did stock ones.

But all that said, I'm open to trying some things. What kind of stock trousers would you guys like to see?

In terms of wool trousers, the lowest price that we ever offered for stock in US-made (by Hertling) was $195. That was a basic Super 120s tropical wool that we sold up until 2013. Every now and then we'd have a factory finds option for $175 or so, but that ship has totally sailed. It only worked because Hertling had a ton of old fabric on hand, but the new factory owners have very little inventory at all.

I did the "Walt Porto" out of Portugal for $165 and $195 (dress wool & flannel, respectively), but it didn't do all that well. We had to move a ton of them out at markdown. Part of that problem was a lack of selection though. If a new customer comes to Epaulet and only sees grey & navy dress pants.. why would they buy it from me? Why not get it from a brand that's making them in Asia for closer to $125.. and has a lot of options to offer. Even if I swapped REDA for a really inexpensive Chinese-made wool, I think that a current Hertling stock pant would probably be $225 at minimum.. maybe more $245. And then you'd be getting a really nicely made pant with like a Bonobos level of fabric. So with my current setup, competing on price for basics just isn't realistic. Italian fabrics and labor cost in NY & MA just cost too much. I've talked with Hertling about this too. Being a cheaper alternative to a Rota trouser is just a better position than trying to be a mashup of J.Crew and Bill's Khakis.

I'm going to do most of my stock trousers with Southwick because of how robust their MTO program is. If a customer buys a simple navy hopsack pant, then we can extend that sale greatly. If he doesn't like something about it, we can figure out what that is and fix it with a custom order. If he likes it, he can order that same fit in hundreds of different fabrics. Their selection is HUGE. So hopefully I can turn nearly any potential return into a new sale by changing the customer over to an MTO product (if needed). That guy is shopping with me because he wants a pant that fits great, so I can hopefully get that for him no matter what.

That said, we are working on that cotton concept with Hertling, where we're going to garment dye and pumice wash a heavyweight Italian cotton twill. The resulting product would be on par with Incotex but priced at $195. That might deliver the value that guys are looking for, and it's sure to be INSANELY comfortable. I like the whole East Coast/West Coast pitch of it too.

Anyway, thank you for the feedback, if you guys have any other desires or wishes, definitely let me know. Hertling will have to be at its current price levels to work, but we can certainly look to innovate some things from there.

 

[bry2000]

That Epaulet has all but switched its trousers business away from Hertling is an ominous sign. Does Hertling have a single wholesale account left?

 

[clee1982]

Hertling is tough pricing point, cheaper Rota somehow doesn’t get same customer base...

 

[jrd617]

Cheaper than Rota? I’ve seen $350+ Wools on nmwa

 

[bry2000]

Their prices are definitely pushing those of Rota. If you want upgrades to the Gable fit or anything else, you are definitely in $400+ territory. Will be interesting to see how things play out.

 

[clee1982]

Cheaper than Rota? I’ve seen $350+ Wools on nmwa

sales price?

 

[clee1982]

Their prices are definitely pushing those of Rota. If you want upgrades to the Gable fit or anything else, you are definitely in $400+ territory. Will be interesting to see how things play out.

I guess that's the reality of made in USA (or more specifically NYC, though Southwick costs even more, so I guess unless you move out northeast can't really go down in price)

by the way, anyone in the clothing industry can tell me why pants cost so much to make, purely ignorance from my side, but always thought pants should be quite a bit cheaper than jackets, looks almost same price by now for the lower tier guys...

 

[jrd617]

The increasing Brooklyn rents must be a part of the new $295 price. If the factory was located in Lancaster, PA, the price might be lower.

Also they do put a lot of quality control into their pants.

That said, Yount was selling pants for $195 that he bought wholesale. And Dapper Classics was charging $245.

Anyone know what the wholesale price used to be and what it is now?

 

[bry2000]

How do you know the rents have been increasing without knowing the terms of the lease? What is the duration of the current lease and where are they in the lease?

 

[clee1982]

The increasing Brooklyn rents must be a part of the new $295 price. If the factory was located in Lancaster, PA, the price might be lower.

Also they do put a lot of quality control into their pants.

That said, Yount was selling pants for $195 that he bought wholesale. And Dapper Classics was charging $245.

Anyone know what the wholesale price used to be and what it is now?

HY was made in Italy right? Can think lots of place in Italy being pretty cheap