HERE AND NOW

[Luigi_M]

Speaking of WW1 i have to say French Officers uniforms were pretty cool too !

I's say that where French uniforms were totally unbeaten was in the Napoleonic era.
Look at "The Duelists": I still would gladly risk a pistol shoot or a sword stab to wear one of Féraud's uniforms.

 

[Clouseau]

I's say that where French uniforms were totally unbeaten was in the Napoleonic era.
Look at "The Duelists": I still would gladly risk a pistol shoot or a sword stab to wear one of Féraud's uniforms.

Of course. One of my ancestors was an officer in the "Artillerie à Cheval" during the Napoléon era and his uniform was very close to the hussards ones.
IIRC Féraud's uniforms correctly he was in the 5th Hussards.
Still the officers uniforms of WW1 were direct inheritors of Napoleonic military style and showed a lot of variation.(at least at the beginning of the war).

 

[Swampster]

Of course. One of my ancestors was an officer in the "Artillerie à Cheval" during the Napoléon era and his uniform was very close to the hussards ones.
IIRC Féraud's uniforms correctly he was in the 5th Hussards.
Still the officers uniforms of WW1 were direct inheritors of Napoleonic military style and showed a lot of variation.(at least at the beginning of the war).

The Napoleonic era uniforms had a huge amount of international cross fertilisation. Austria-Hungary introduced some of the key features, such as the shako.
The influences on the hussars' uniforms are incredibly old - there are 12th (iirc) century Byzantine illustrations of their Bulgar and Magyar enemies wearing recognisable forbears of the dolman or pelisse. The look is certainly 'Here and Now' but much more for women. The female judge on Great British Bake Off Professionals recently wore a jacket of this sort.

While uniforms have so often been designed with at least one eye on appearance, the WW2 British battle dress blouse was designed with function (and economy) more in mind than most - enough that the Wehrmacht introduced a close copy which was being introduced as the war ended. The jacket entered youth culture - not least due to the availability in vast numbers once it was replaced - and was pretty common for a while though I don't think I have seen one for a while. The itchy material probably put many off - I don't think I ever wore my brother's though I often wore other things of his.
Post-War German army parkas and Italian army jackets or shirts became popular here but usually worn by those who would have thought of themselves as 'anti-fashion' (and by a quirk of rhyme, 'anti-fascist'). I think the Italian stuff was partly popular as it was a similar cut to stuff worn by Che Guevara.

 

[Clouseau]

@Swampster yes IIRC Hussards (or Hussars in you tongue) come from the hungarian "Huszar" that meant "one on twenty" as for twenty guys enlisted in the army one was for the cavalry.

Yes the British battle dress blouse was worn in the 80s by some youths ( see one of my precedent posts) because there were deadstocks. Itchy for sure and also totally daft (imho).

 

[Swampster]

True. I'd be really curious to see a whole figure drawing as, I agree, Pratt is very accurate in his details.
In the meantime, here's a vintage drawing of the Warm (where it's defined "a useful garment for other than Military purposes").
View attachment 1433671

To put in context - the fleece lined camel coat would cost a Captain about 10 days pay, or about 4 days pay for a Colonel. (Of course, it would be totally out of reach for an enlisted man, even if he were allowed to wear it).

 

[Swampster]

@Swampster yes IIRC Hussards (or Hussars in you tongue) come from the hungarian "Huszar" that meant "one on twenty" as for twenty guys enlisted in the army one was for the cavalry.

There are various theories but that is one of them. Another is that it is from Serbian 'gusar' - a brigand. There were certainly Serbs in the Hungarian army in the early 15th century when the word is first recorded, and it seems to have been the Serbians - Racowie - who brought the term to Poland where it eventually applied to the glorious Polish Hussars.
You can see the common features of Eastern European clothing which ended up in the hussar uniforms being worn by Racowie in the magnificent chaos which is the Battle of Orsha painting from the early 16th century.

(Bringing it a bit closer to 'Now' - if any of you watched 'Being Human', the Battle of Orsha was where Hal was 'recruited' as vampire. I think his look would still be quite relevant.)

 

[Clouseau]

TBH, when i was young me and my friends wore a lot of deadstock army stuff but we avoided the British blouse and coats at all cost.
We liked mainly US army MA1s and army green trenchcoats, US Army boots.
German stuff was also much appreciated. As the Fritz were so friendly with us that they decided to stay a couple of years, when they finally left they forgot a bit of army stuff... in the 80s you could still find some in the "marché aux puces"...The punks appreciated the black "stiffel" ( not sure of the spelling) boots while we liked the army ankles boots...
The belts were also popular.
Not mentioning the lugers and P38s...
We also liked the French army deadstock from indochina and Algeria wars.

 

[Luigi_M]

Not mentioning the lugers and P38s...

Geez! were you guys just menacing girls' modesty, or assaulting banks instead???

 

[Clouseau]

Geez! were you guys just menacing girls' modesty, or assaulting banks instead???

We never menaced girls we are French ! Même pas avec une rose !
(Not even with a rose - a common saying here)

 

[cerneabbas]

Now this is not a critical post,I have enjoyed the last few pages and I have a love of history especially military history.
However we are having thread drift and as I was one of the people who complained when TLGO became 'Moore,Mods and miners' I feel that I need to make the point here.
I will happily carry on the discussion about military uniforms and tell you my favourites but is this the direction that we want the thread to take ?

 

[Clouseau]

Now this is not a critical post,I have enjoyed the last few pages and I have a love of history especially military history.
However we are having thread drift and as I was one of the people who complained when TLGO became 'Moore,Mods and miners' I feel that I need to make the point here.
I will happily carry on the discussion about military uniforms and tell you my favourites but is this the direction that we want the thread to take ?

You are very right my friend.
But we mentioned before the influence of military garments on menswear, so why not discuss it ?
I reckon we have been digressing quite a lot since yesterday, but at the same time the scope of this thread is quite broad...
I also understand the military uniform discussion can be boring for certain... i am thinking for example of @smittycl who after more (i think) than 20 years in the US Army is a bit bored with uniforms and much prefer Classical menswear !

 

[Luigi_M]

Ops ... I for first must plea guilty for that.

 

[Clouseau]

I think the thread needs more pictures, don't hesitate to post "fits" or item pictures guys...
@cerneabbas input has been great for that recently.
I have a phone/camera problem for a while so i can't take acceptable "fit" pictures these days...

 

[Swampster]

Now this is not a critical post,I have enjoyed the last few pages and I have a love of history especially military history.
However we are having thread drift and as I was one of the people who complained when TLGO became 'Moore,Mods and miners' I feel that I need to make the point here.
I will happily carry on the discussion about military uniforms and tell you my favourites but is this the direction that we want the thread to take ?

Sorry. This sort of thing has always been my sort of thing, so I get easily carried away.

 

[Clouseau]

I's say that where French uniforms were totally unbeaten was in the Napoleonic era.

My last post on the subject !

In this trailer of the recent movie "An officer and a spy" based on the Dreyfus case (1894-1906 - the uniforms were the same in WW1), you can see (only) a few officer's uniforms, the black jackets the generals are wearing are of a certain interest (and pretty classy) as they have "Brandenburgs" ornaments, a direct legacy from Napoleonic era. (even if they were not of French origin, and a characteristic of the Hussars Dolman (jacket))



Quite a good movie BTW.