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help me with my shoe plan. 5-6k to spend.

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by GQgeek, Mar 11, 2006.

  1. TKDKid

    TKDKid Senior Member

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    Concerning #2, I was thinking a CJ Weymouth might be a good substitute, but in the catalogue it seems that the only options are black and dark brown antique. Is the weymouth really only available in those two colors? I prefer lighter colored shoes, especially for wholecuts.
    You may find this thread interesting...

    How about a double monkstrap? I like the John Lobb Paris Naseby:

    [​IMG]

    although the Derwent is nice too:

    [​IMG]
     


  2. globetrotter

    globetrotter Stylish Dinosaur

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    Sysdoc,I hadn't seen the Hanover before as it's not in the current catalogues. Is it still available? I'm also wondering if you have any pictures of shoes in the light tan to which you refer. Your pictures a lot better than the ones in the catalogue (and i'm going to be ordering from plal so i won't see them in person before I buy). Lastly, in what finish was the Hanover in your picture done, dark brown antique? Again, it looks a lot better than the catalogue scans (completely different, actually).

    Anyway, the Hanovers were a great suggestion and I think they'll satisfy my wholecut needs (for the time-being), which will allow me to get the EG Ladbroke & the Inverness instead of the Newbury.

    GT, regarding Vass... I had that exact same thought about a month ago, and I actually asked the following question on the AAAC forum, but never got a reply. Is their bespoke really only 700 euros if you fly to Budapest for them? How much is a RTW shoe there? I've also read somewhere that it's not true bespoke, but a MTM program. Either way, it's definitely something I'm considering for the future. I've thought about it though and I really want my Ladbrokes first, not to mention that the need for two trips to budapest adds considerably to the price of the shoes.

    Regarding the Tony Gaziano suggestions... I will definitely be placing an order with him in the future, but right now I need to build-up a decent rotation and I can't do that at $2500 per pair ;p

    So far my selection of definites, which has me up to ~3.5k, is looking as follows:
    1)EG Ladbroke on 888 in chestnut or burnt pine
    2)EG Inverness on 888 in burgundy
    3)C&J Hanover on 337 in tan antique or dark brown antique
    4)C&J Saville on 337 in dark brown antique

    Maybes:
    -Vass London 3 Eyelet U Last in dark brown or oxblood (will definitely get, but might skip for now and buy in europe next year)
    -Berluti Allessandro
    -Santoni Handmade 6239
    -Santoni Handmade Rubino
    -Santoni Handmade Marro (I really like the burnished toe)
    -Still looking for a sleek norwegian i really like.

    And I second Roger's question, how does C&J handgrade leather compare to EG leather?

    Thanks for all the help guys.


    GQ - I bought two pair of cordovan ankle boots for less than $700 a piece. If they had been shoes, in calf, and I had paid cash, they would have been $500 a pair. these are the first shoes I have ever had made, so I really may not be the one to answer the bespoke/made to measure issue - but they took a dozen or so measurments of my foot, and the boots fit better than any other shoes I have ever had. I have to force myself to wear my other (pre-prada church) shoes, which were great up until now, and now seem to fit poorly, even though I bought them all with a great deal of care for the fit. so, whether or not these are "true bespoke" they fit fantstically.

    also, one pair is a medalian "whole cut" (although I am not sure that really applies to an ankle boot) but not really a design that they normally do - I discribed what I wanted, and we discussed it, and they made it for me. I chose the leather and the color - I am not sure what more one could want from a bespoke experience.

    the one problem is picking up the shoes - I had a friend in Budapest pick mine up. you should be able to find a solution - if nothing else get someone from Fedex or a hotel concierge to pick them up, and give him $100.

    I am very very happy with my shoes. I simply can't imagine how they could get better, but I am also not in a position to get some bespoke british shoes - maybe the expereince is substantially better.

    and budapest is a great place to visit - if you go let me know, I can give you some pointers.
     


  3. TimelessRider

    TimelessRider Senior Member

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    -Still looking for a sleek norwegian i really like.
    Unless you mean the Italian styled Norwegian, consider Edward Green's Dover in the 82 or 888 lasts or its sleeker 3-eyelet cousin. A Dover on the 888 last:

    [​IMG]
     


  4. sysdoc

    sysdoc Senior Member

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    Sysdoc,I hadn't seen the Hanover before as it's not in the current catalogues. Is it still available? I'm also wondering if you have any pictures of shoes in the light tan to which you refer. Your pictures a lot better than the ones in the catalogue (and i'm going to be ordering from plal so i won't see them in person before I buy). Lastly, in what finish was the Hanover in your picture done, dark brown antique? Again, it looks a lot better than the catalogue scans (completely different, actually).
    GQgeek, The Hanover is a special order C&J shoe from the Handgrade line. I bought it from the Gordon Scott store in New Bond St./London. I am not quite sure how you have to go about getting them in places that don't already stock them. The color of my Hanover is "Antique Tan", color code "1TB", Model No. 9445. Here's a comparison shot with my EG Ladbroke in Burnt Pine: [​IMG] You can see that the Hanover is lighter than the Ladbroke. C&J's "Antique Tan" is about as light as EG's "Edwardian".
    I'm pleased to hear that.
    May I suggest you go for a Vass U-last Monk Strap instead of the C&J Savile? It's a gorgeous shoe and rather unique. It would also make a great alternative to the Vass U-last 3-eyelet Derby. [​IMG]
    I am baffled by the C&J HG leather every time I polish one of my C&J shoes. I have definitely not ever polished any other leather that would be as soft and as easy to polish. However, the surface of the HG leather is different to the somewhat waxy appearance of EG's leather. Lobb's leather is once more a completely different animal. I like each of the three and I know that each has its unique look and feel. I'd suggest you make your own picture. I don't see any reason at all why I should consider C&J's HG leather inferior to EG's or JL's. IMO the only real disadvantage of C&J's HG shoes is the tiny selection of different leather colors.
     


  5. JLibourel

    JLibourel Distinguished Member

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    Fly to Atlanta, buy Grensons at Bennie's.

    Have they got any left? I didn't see any references to them in a cursory examination of their website. However, I sensed a certain facetiousness in your suggestion, Alan.
     


  6. GQgeek

    GQgeek Stylish Dinosaur

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    GQ - I bought two pair of cordovan ankle boots for less than $700 a piece. If they had been shoes, in calf, and I had paid cash, they would have been $500 a pair. these are the first shoes I have ever had made, so I really may not be the one to answer the bespoke/made to measure issue - but they took a dozen or so measurments of my foot, and the boots fit better than any other shoes I have ever had. I have to force myself to wear my other (pre-prada church) shoes, which were great up until now, and now seem to fit poorly, even though I bought them all with a great deal of care for the fit. so, whether or not these are "true bespoke" they fit fantstically.

    also, one pair is a medalian "whole cut" (although I am not sure that really applies to an ankle boot) but not really a design that they normally do - I discribed what I wanted, and we discussed it, and they made it for me. I chose the leather and the color - I am not sure what more one could want from a bespoke experience.

    the one problem is picking up the shoes - I had a friend in Budapest pick mine up. you should be able to find a solution - if nothing else get someone from Fedex or a hotel concierge to pick them up, and give him $100.

    I am very very happy with my shoes. I simply can't imagine how they could get better, but I am also not in a position to get some bespoke british shoes - maybe the expereince is substantially better.

    and budapest is a great place to visit - if you go let me know, I can give you some pointers.


    Wow, we're not even talking euros, but 500 USD for shoes in calf? What was the wait time on your shoes? And I guess you don't need two trips because it sounds like MTM so there isn't a try-on before the final shoe is made.

    What sort of questions did you answer in discussing the shoes that would be made? Do you chose from pre-existing lasts? Do you get a bevelled waist for 500 bucks? [​IMG]

    When is the best (cheapest) time to visit budapest?

    Thanks for the info GT, been wondering about Vass for a while now.
     


  7. sammy

    sammy Senior Member

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    I'm assuming that the C&J Hanovers can be purchased directly from C&J in London. Is that correct? Approximately, what would the price be for these? I just ordered the Weymouths from Plal. If they fit well, then I may get the Hanovers as well. There is another C&J wholecut called the "Alex" that I saw on their French website. I don't know if its handgrade or not.
     


  8. Sevcom

    Sevcom Senior Member

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    Have they got any left?

    Check the buying and selling forum. According to Chris, they're coming back soon ...
     


  9. GQgeek

    GQgeek Stylish Dinosaur

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    GQgeek,

    May I suggest you go for a Vass U-last Monk Strap instead of the C&J Savile? It's a gorgeous shoe and rather unique. It would also make a great alternative to the Vass U-last 3-eyelet Derby.

    [​IMG]


    I am baffled by the C&J HG leather every time I polish one of my C&J shoes. I have definitely not ever polished any other leather that would be as soft and as easy to polish. However, the surface of the HG leather is different to the somewhat waxy appearance of EG's leather. Lobb's leather is once more a completely different animal. I like each of the three and I know that each has its unique look and feel. I'd suggest you make your own picture.

    I don't see any reason at all why I should consider C&J's HG leather inferior to EG's or JL's. IMO the only real disadvantage of C&J's HG shoes is the tiny selection of different leather colors.


    I saw the Vass monkstap on their website and agree that it's gorgeous. It looks almost predatory. The soonest I could get to Europe would be in the fall however, but judging by Globetrotters post, it sounds like it's worth saving some pennies for, so maybe I'll just get my EGs and plan a trip to Budapest to satisfy the rest of my urges.

    Regarding the C&J leather, from that comparison picture with the Ladbrokes, it would seems as though the C&J have a heavier pattern of creasing. Is that the leather or have they just been submitted to more wear?
     


  10. sysdoc

    sysdoc Senior Member

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    Sysdoc, the one thing that has kept me from buying a pair or Weymouths is that the soles seem to extend too far out. I have a pair of EG Newburys now, and they seem trimmer. Is this your impression too? I know you like close-cut soles, as I do. Am I right about the Weymouths, or are they trimmer in the flesh?
    Roger, I have made exactly the same observation. In fact, I think that when it comes to narrow welts, the only alternative to EG are English or Swedish ([​IMG]) bespoke shoes. I really like the C&J Handgrade leather for its softness and positive and quick 'responsiveness' to Saphir Pate de luxe polish, but the color choices are very limited. Other than that, I've only found few very minor issues that can make a C&J HG appear slightly inferior to EG. I think that the closing could be done a bit better. The heels are often not cut (clicked) perfectly accurate and in some places the threads loosen over time. However, EG has also got a quality problem. Do you remember josepidal's shoe with the creases in the inside heel area? Janne Melkersson explained to me how this problem occurs and that it is indeed the sign of less-than-perfect craftsmanship. I've got half a dozen pairs of EGs with the same problem as josepidal's pair. I'd say that this number is significant.
     


  11. GQgeek

    GQgeek Stylish Dinosaur

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    Roger,

    I have made exactly the same observation. In fact, I think that when it comes to narrow welts, the only alternative to EG are English or Swedish ([​IMG]) bespoke shoes.

    I really like the C&J Handgrade leather for its softness and positive and quick 'responsiveness' to Saphir Pate de luxe polish, but the color choices are very limited. Other than that, I've only found few very minor issues that can make a C&J HG appear slightly inferior to EG. I think that the closing could be done a bit better. The heels are often not cut (clicked) perfectly accurate and in some places the threads loosen over time.

    However, EG has also got a quality problem. Do you remember josepidal's shoe with the creases in the inside heel area? Janne Melkersson explained to me how this problem occurs and that it is indeed the sign of less-than-perfect craftsmanship. I've got half a dozen pairs of EGs with the same problem as josepidal's pair. I'd say that this number is significant.


    I remember that shoe. Care to share what Janne told you?
     


  12. sysdoc

    sysdoc Senior Member

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    Regarding the C&J leather, from that comparison picture with the Ladbrokes, it would seems as though the C&J have a heavier pattern of creasing. Is that the leather or have they just been submitted to more wear?
    They are older and I just saw that I darkened them a while ago with a polish darker than the original color. The creases always show the original color and the contrast makes the creases appear more prominent. I'll strip them in the next days and use polish that matches the original color. I'd say that creasing is pretty much the last problem you'd have with C&J Handgrades. The leather is softer than that of any other high end shoe maker that I have tried, so that creases are also much softer instead of deep canyons. I'd say that Vass leather is at the other end of the scale. It's very stiff. Vass shoes develop sharp and deep creases, which makes it rather tedious to polish them. This creasing issue is of course different with Vass shoes made of Cordovan.
     


  13. sysdoc

    sysdoc Senior Member

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    I remember that shoe. Care to share what Janne told you?
    It's got to do with the machine that lasts the upper and how it's operated. I am a big fan of EG and don't feel very well making any more wind of this for the time being. I think it's not more than fair to talk to the factory first.
     


  14. globetrotter

    globetrotter Stylish Dinosaur

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    Wow, we're not even talking euros, but 500 USD for shoes in calf? What was the wait time on your shoes? And I guess you don't need two trips because it sounds like MTM so there isn't a try-on before the final shoe is made.

    What sort of questions did you answer in discussing the shoes that would be made? Do you chose from pre-existing lasts? Do you get a bevelled waist for 500 bucks? [​IMG]

    When is the best (cheapest) time to visit budapest?

    Thanks for the info GT, been wondering about Vass for a while now.



    not euros, bucks.

    wait time - maybe 4 weeks, I honestly don't remember, between 3 and 5.

    in terms of questions - I knew exactly what I wanted, so I basically showed them the leather, the color, the basic styles I wanted merged, and then we disuscussed lasts. They tried pretty hard to push me into a very elegant last, and I wanted a more "sturdy" looking last - I didn't feel comfortable with the narrow waist and long toe of the last they recomended, it wasn't "me". the last wouldn't have affected the price, and they showed me several possibilities.

    I can't tell you when is cheapest, I have only gone on business, but I would be suprised if you couldn't get there for $500 if you planned it right. try orbitz, expedia and travelocity and play around with dates 3 weeks in advance, and you should be able to schedule a weekend trip for $500 bucks or so. I usually pay less than $100 a night for what used to pass as a 5 star hotel in Budapest. a real 5 star still isn't more than $150. food is pretty cheap, a full day at the baths with a pedicure and a massage won't set you back more than $25. beer is cheap, and the city is pretty. you can bring back a lot of paprika and salami, too. feel free to ask if you have any more specfic questions.
     


  15. GQgeek

    GQgeek Stylish Dinosaur

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    Ok, thanks for the info GT. I'll hit you up with more questions if I decide to take the plunge and visit Budapest.
     


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