Guns? (do you carry?) revived

Discussion in 'Social Life, Food & Drink, Travel' started by drizzt3117, Aug 4, 2006.

  1. Arethusa

    Arethusa Senior member

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    You say that like it's a bad thing.
    That six pound piece of shit in your trousers would do more good if you fed it to him.
     


  2. Renault78law

    Renault78law Senior member

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    I'm obviously ignorant on the subject, please bear with me. I've been robbed at gunpoint, and I don't understand how having a gun in that situation would have helped. Could someone please walk me through a likely senario?

    With a gun pointed directly at my face, I could have tried to draw and shoot him before I got shot. Probably a 0% chance of that happening.
    Or I could have waited for him to walk away, then shoot him in the back? That's not kosher, legally (arguably morally, but probably not).
    Or I could have waited for him to walk away, then tried to apprehend and disarm him with the threat of my gun, sit on him, and call police for backup? btw, when I called 911, I waited on hold for 10 minutes, then hung up.

    If he decided to start shooting, I was toast, gun or no gun.
     


  3. lawyerdad

    lawyerdad Senior member

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    That six pound piece of shit in your trousers would do more good if you fed it to him.
    Him being who? It's hard for me to decide whether I'm supposed to be amused or offended, since I can't make any sense out of your post.
     


  4. 4Mica

    4Mica Senior member

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    I'm obviously ignorant on the subject, please bear with me. I've been robbed at gunpoint, and I don't understand how having a gun in that situation would have helped. Could someone please walk me through a likely senario?

    With a gun pointed directly at my face, I could have tried to draw and shoot him before I got shot. Probably a 0% chance of that happening.
    Or I could have waited for him to walk away, then shoot him in the back? That's not kosher, legally (arguably morally, but probably not).
    Or I could have waited for him to walk away, then tried to apprehend and disarm him with the threat of my gun, sit on him, and call police for backup? btw, when I called 911, I waited on hold for 10 minutes, then hung up.

    If he decided to start shooting, I was toast, gun or no gun.


    Part of the training I received in order to obtain a concealed weapons license was about being aware of what is going around you and assessing threat levels, this training also concerned thinking about not putting yourself in situations were there is a higher risk of needing to use the weapon. Personally, when I am carrying I feel the added responsiblity and my awareness is heightened. The scenerio you describe can still happen but I have one more option than you had because I am armed.
     


  5. Arethusa

    Arethusa Senior member

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    Him being who? It's hard for me to decide whether I'm supposed to be amused or offended, since I can't make any sense out of your post.
    You're supposed to watch Snatch. Anyway, the Desert Eagle is a range toy. No one sensible takes one to a fight, and carrying one around concealed is simply ridiculous. Renault, if you get to a point where a gun is pointed to your head and the guy is demanding your wallet, you give him your wallet whether you have a gun or not.
     


  6. lawyerdad

    lawyerdad Senior member

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    You're supposed to watch Snatch.

    Anyway, the Desert Eagle is a range toy. No one sensible takes one to a fight, and carrying one around concealed is simply ridiculous.

    Renault, if you get to a point where a gun is pointed to your head and the guy is demanding your wallet, you give him your wallet whether you have a gun or not.

    LOL. Never seen it. I'm sure you're right about the gun. I was simply taking your words out of context and making a dick joke. [​IMG]
     


  7. Arethusa

    Arethusa Senior member

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    Hey, I'm sure that'd hurt too.
     


  8. GQgeek

    GQgeek Senior member

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    I wish the gun laws in canada would be relaxed a bit b/c the transport rules are completely stupid and the restrictions they place on shooting people when they break in to your home are ridiculous.

    Having said that, even if you could get a conceal and carry up here I don't think I would except when i was going back and forth to the range because there's no danger on my regular routes to school and work. If I lived in Scarborough or some place like that I might reconsider however. I know too many people from TO that know people that have been shot over stupidity. A gun might or might not have helped those people, but at least they would have had an option besides being killed on the spot.

    There's no danger in my current building but when I buy a house I'll be getting a gun. Some guy was shot dead in his house during a burglary 3 houses down from us. I was also out to dinner with some old friends last night and heard that my best friend from hs' neighbor had her throat slit in her house.

    Besides, who says you have to use deadly force with a gun? You can shoot someone without the intention to kill them.

    EDIT: You're not even allowed to carry stun guns or pepper spray here. As I said, I don't have a problem based on where I currently live and work, but I know there are some places that really aren't cool. My little cousin in Ottawa has been mugged and beaten-up 2 times in the last year, and not in situations where he was snuck up on. He knew his assailants were coming but couldn't really do anything.
     


  9. Arethusa

    Arethusa Senior member

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    Besides, who says you have to use deadly force with a gun? You can shoot someone without the intention to kill them.
    That is generally a very, very bad idea.
     


  10. retronotmetro

    retronotmetro Senior member

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    Besides, who says you have to use deadly force with a gun? You can shoot someone without the intention to kill them.

    Have fun arguing that one to a jury.
     


  11. GQgeek

    GQgeek Senior member

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    Have fun arguing that one to a jury.

    I think that if you shot someone in the leg it would be a pretty easy argument to make, assuming they didn't die on you :p The chest is a lot easier to hit and is what most people intent on killing aim for.


    That is generally a very, very bad idea.


    I would say that it's very dependant on the situation and the laws where you live, no? If some guy comes at you with a wrench are you allowed to shoot him dead? He can't kill you with a blunt object if you shoot him in a non-lethal area and you'll be less likely to get in trouble for the shooting. I think you should use the least amount of force necessary to neutralize the threat, more out of fear of legal repercussions than any value I attribute to an assailants' life. If the guy has a gun however, the rules change.

    I know that in canada even if a guy breaks in to your place you're not allowed to shoot him unless he's basically already on top of you with a knife already at your throat.

    Regardless, I don't profess to be some expert in weapons tactics.
     


  12. Englandmj7

    Englandmj7 Senior member

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    I noticed on the first page that someone mentioned they carry a knife on them. I know in California, it is illegal to carry any knife on your person in public if the blade can be locked/is fixed in position. Of course, having worked many summers on ranches here I know that everyone carries a huge knife in many parts of the state, and that generally it is not going to get you arrested......what are the laws like in your state? Surely, you are not allowed to carry around a fixed blade?

    In regards to guns, I keep a .357 hammerless Ruger next to my bed...It is difficult to get a concealed weapons permit in this state.
     


  13. Arethusa

    Arethusa Senior member

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    I would say that it's very dependant on the situation and the laws where you live, no? If some guy comes at you with a wrench are you allowed to shoot him dead? He can't kill you with a blunt object if you shoot him in a non-lethal area and you'll be less likely to get in trouble for the shooting. I think you should use the least amount of force necessary to neutralize the threat, more out of fear of legal repercussions than any value I attribute to an assailants' life. If the guy has a gun however, the rules change. I know that in canada even if a guy breaks in to your place you're not allowed to shoot him unless he's basically already on top of you with a knife already at your throat. Regardless, I don't profess to be some expert in weapons tactics.
    My views on the value of human life don't really enter into it. It's just simply a bad idea because guns kill people. If you don't want to kill the person, use something else. If lethal force isn't reasonable, don't use a gun. If lethal force is necessary and you need to stop him, shooting your attacker somewhere "non lethal" is not going to stop him reliably. It isn't impossible to disable someone without killing him, but it is not something you rely on in any situation in which lethal force is necessary. "Non lethal" shooting is not something you can really do, anyway. Shoot someone in the shoulder and you can hit one of the clavian arteries or the axillary artery. Shoot someone in the arm and you can hit the brachial artery. Shoot someone in the thigh and you can hit the femoral artery. People can be incredibly resilient, but they can also be remarkably fragile, and shooting someone in the shoulder to disable him is, for the most part, something that happens in bad movies.
     


  14. retronotmetro

    retronotmetro Senior member

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    I noticed on the first page that someone mentioned they carry a knife on them. I know in California, it is illegal to carry any knife on your person in public if the blade can be locked/is fixed in position.

    You have been incorrectly informed about the law. Cal. Penal Code § 12020 prohibits the carrying of a concealed "dirk or dagger."

    12020 provides that:
    and also provides that:
    Local laws can be more restrictive than 12020 (e.g., some cities restrict overall blade length), but most of those laws have safe harbor provisions for knives carried for use in one's employment. There is another section in the Penal Code that prohibits carrying certain knives on school premises (including colleges) but in general, 12020 is the governing statute.
     


  15. lawyerdad

    lawyerdad Senior member

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    I think that if you shot someone in the leg it would be a pretty easy argument to make, assuming they didn't die on you :p The chest is a lot easier to hit and is what most people intent on killing aim for.


    Unless you're being attacked by a zombie, in which case everyone knows you have to shoot for the head.
     


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