Gun Appreciation Thread

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by tiecollector, Aug 10, 2007.

  1. gnatty8

    gnatty8 Senior member

    Messages:
    9,499
    Likes Received:
    1,505
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2006
    Location:
    Not in Atlanta, GA
    

    JL, do you clean and lubricate your pistols after every trip to the range or less frequently? I for one would love ot hear your thoughts on proper maintenance, or if you've posted about it elsewhere, would very much appreciate you pointing me in the right direction. Thanks in advance!
     


  2. luftvier

    luftvier Senior member

    Messages:
    3,919
    Likes Received:
    618
    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2008
    Location:
    Filthydelphia
    ^I do, afraid to leave the fouling on there. If I am doing it wrong, please let me know.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2011


  3. JLibourel

    JLibourel Senior member

    Messages:
    8,663
    Likes Received:
    412
    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2004
    

    I do clean my pistols as soon as possible after each range visit. This may be more for aesthetic reasons than practical necessity. I just find dirty guns revolting. I might mention that some very competent people take a different view: One well-respected gun writer remarked to me he had seen many firearms ruined by over-zealous cleaning (probably in efforts to pass military inspections), and he cleaned his guns only occasionally. Surprisingly, given his views on gun cleaning, this man had commanded a Marine rifle company in Nam.

    Another prolific gun writer and survival authority told me that he hardly ever cleans his guns. He had been informed by one firearms designer (and veteran of the OSS back in WWII) that after the first couple hundred rounds cleaning was pretty much unnecessary for functional reliability.

    As for cleaning protocols, nothing special: I don't like to let more than 24 hours elapse after shooting before cleaning. If I have been shooting unjacketed lead bullets, I like to let the bore and chamber(s) soak for at least a couple of hours in a mild solvent. My usual favorite is Venco Shooter's Choice. I then like to brush out with a stainless brush. I have heard purists claim that they are too aggressive and can damage bores, but I have been using them on my guns for many a long year with no discernible damage. For just getting powder fouling and gunk off the gun, I use CRC Engine Degreaser, which you can get at Pep Boys for less than $4. It's a good deal cheaper and works just as well as similar product offered in the gun stores, and is much, much cheaper than using solvent, which I foolishly and wastefully did for many years. After I've got the barrel and chambers clean, I wipe the all surfaces off and coat them with whatever suitable lubricant or gun oil I have handy. Although some purists counsel against its use, I've always found WD-40 has worked just fine for me. I've been using it for 40-odd years and have yet to rue its use.

    On high-velocity rifles, I like to let the bore soak overnight with mild solvent (a too-aggressive solvent will ruin the bore) and then follow customary cleaning protocols. If I have been shooting corrosive-primed ammunition, I flush the barrel out with hot, soapy water, dry it and then coat it with solvent.

    With shotguns, I have found the fouling left by the plastic wadding is sometimes resistant to conventional solvents. Venco offers a good cleaning solvent specially formulated for shotguns that works well at getting this fouling out.
     


  4. suited

    suited Senior member

    Messages:
    6,680
    Likes Received:
    2,951
    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2008
    On another note, went to the FL CCW class tonight. It was packed. It's held twice a week, so the permit seems to be in high demand right now - unless I was in an unusually crowded class. This class was far less rigorous than the class I took in Ohio. We went over the Florida laws concerning carrying/self defense, then fired 20 rounds from a .22 caliber revolver at a target placed at 7 yards. I think the whole thing took about an hour.
     


  5. gnatty8

    gnatty8 Senior member

    Messages:
    9,499
    Likes Received:
    1,505
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2006
    Location:
    Not in Atlanta, GA
    

    Thanks Jan, I really appreciate the detailed response. I tend to be a little lazy, and rarely take my pistols down to clean them. Usually some S&W bore cleaner, swab, lightly oil barrel, wipe down frame with Remington oil wipes, and a few drops of oil on moving parts, barrel exterior (on pistols), and that's all she wrote. Sounds like you are far more patient than I!!
     


  6. JLibourel

    JLibourel Senior member

    Messages:
    8,663
    Likes Received:
    412
    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2004
    I just had a chat with my friend Jerry Ahern, who headed up Detonics in its third incarnation. He remarked that the original (first incarnation) Detonics did much to solve the problem of galling in stainless auto pistols back in the '70s by consulting the aerospace industry, Detonics being based in Seattle at the time. By going to different stainless alloys for slide and frame, the galling problem was whipped. He was very surprised anyone would raise the issue nowadays.

    As to the non-cleaning of guns, when Jerry was president of Detonics, Jerry had a Detonics 9-11-01 (full-size, service style, stainless 1911) fired 31,000 times with no cleaning beyond wiping off external gunk occasionally. The pistol was never stripped in the course of firing the 31,000 rounds. It functioned perfectly throughout the torture test and was still respectably accurate at the end of the trial. He then let the pistol sit for a full year to let any accumulated fouling solidify and then shot it again. It still shot well and worked perfectly. What can I say? I still like to clean my guns after shooting.

    I might mention I have a 9-11-01. It's a very nice 1911. I had my good friend Garey Hindman of Ace Custom (now out of business) convert it to .45 Super. I must take it out and put some more rounds through it soon.
     


  7. gnatty8

    gnatty8 Senior member

    Messages:
    9,499
    Likes Received:
    1,505
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2006
    Location:
    Not in Atlanta, GA
    

    Holy shit. Now there's a guy with a lot of faith in his gun.

    Have you ever used anything like the little oil soaked wipes Remington markets? They come in a plastic canister like Armor All wipes. I find they work wonders for quick clean up after the range when I just want to apply some oil to the metal surfaces..
     


  8. JLibourel

    JLibourel Senior member

    Messages:
    8,663
    Likes Received:
    412
    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2004
    

    Not that I can recall--there are so many of these cleaning and lubrication products out there!
     


  9. Ace Rimmer

    Ace Rimmer Senior member

    Messages:
    757
    Likes Received:
    3
    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2007
    Location:
    Philadelphia PA
    On the subject of cleaning, I have been following Pat Rogers's saga of "Dirty 14", a Bravo Company AR rifle that he and his students have been using in his classes. Last I read (in SWAT magazine) I think Dirty 14 was up to around 31,000 rounds with maybe one "full" cleaning and other minor touch-up jobs (e.g. lubricating the bolt with CLP).

    While I am very lazy when it comes to cleaning guns, I don't endorse the concept that cleaning is bad. If I were more diiligent, I would clean my guns after every use. The problem lies with my work ethic, not the concept of a clean gun. :embar:
     


  10. JustinW

    JustinW Senior member

    Messages:
    9,199
    Likes Received:
    100
    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2008
    On the topic of cleaning: I still abide by the ADF maxim: shoot once, clean thrice. When I get home from the range I ensure all firearms that I shot are unloaded and all ammo is stored. I then put in a CD and crack one beer. I do a thorough field strip and clean before putting them away. I do another field strip and clean the next day. On the third day I'll field strip and inspect to see if any additional cleaning is required. If not, I'll remove excess cleaners and solvents and give the firearms a light lubrication with LSA.

    I think it is true that the defense force obsession with cleaning firearms may shorten their lifespan a little. But for most civilian shooters, that means your rifle may need some parts repaired/replaced after 30 years instead of 40. In return, you will have a weapon you are confident will not fail due to fouling. You will also be far more confident in your knowledge of the weapons' parts and your ability to assemble and disassemble it under stress.

    Edit to add: I am particularly thorough cleaning my 5.45mm rifles as I shoot 7N1 ammo with corrosive primers. Genuine Soviet barrels are hard to come-by and I will not risk buggering one of mine up because I was too lazy to properly clean after shooting.
     


  11. JustinW

    JustinW Senior member

    Messages:
    9,199
    Likes Received:
    100
    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2008
    

    Have you shot your MSAR Aug clone yet? I see Ratworx is now doing a 5,45 conversion kit for them and I am tempted by the idea of a left handed 5,45 bullpup!

    I am curious to know how the MSAR compares to the genuine F88, though even the Real McCoy had a pretty bad trigger in semi mode.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2011


  12. Ace Rimmer

    Ace Rimmer Senior member

    Messages:
    757
    Likes Received:
    3
    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2007
    Location:
    Philadelphia PA
    

    I am ashamed to say that I haven't shot it yet. I just got my backordered side rail from Ratworx (backordered December 2009, shipped July 2011!) and slapped it on there. I've only been to the range twice this year (once to qualify for IDPA and the other time to sight in my new Bravo Company upper). I need to pull the MSAR out of storage and get it sighted in, but I am having trouble with some other uppers which take precedence.

    PS did you see MSAR declared Chapter 11 bankrutpcy in the last few months? :facepalm: I need to get some spare parts from Ratworx so that if MSAR never emerges from reorganization I will have spare parts for when things go wrong ....
     


  13. JustinW

    JustinW Senior member

    Messages:
    9,199
    Likes Received:
    100
    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2008
    


    Urrgghhh!! Well that sucks!

    One of the things that put me off the MSARs is their product-improvements like bolt hold open and forward assist. That must also make fewer Steyr parts interchangeable, right?

    What I am really looking for is a legal F88 clone with a 16" barrel: http://www.pbase.com/sgt_chip/image/49252626
     


  14. Crane's

    Crane's Senior member

    Messages:
    6,237
    Likes Received:
    512
    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2008
    Location:
    Chasing tornadoes across the plains.
    Well JL I can personally attest to the fact that metallurgy has greatly benefited from the aerospace industry. The first half of my working life was spent in a machine shop making stuff for them along with a few zillion other people including some gun manufacturers. You've been inside outside and all around the gun biz for about forever. I've tortured guns and so have you. I suppose we could talk all day long about guns that run but really that's not the point. It's really about best practices. Following the manufacturer's instructions is always a best practice and should be adhered to no matter what any of us have to say. Wouldn't you agree? Also we all need to keep in mind that there's a ton of older guns out there that did not benefit from aerospace or for that matter modern metallurgy. Ya just don't take an ol' first generation Colt Peacemaker out and stuff the holes with the 45 LC loads that you cooked up for hunting bear with your Ruger Blackhawk and pull the trigger. Yeah I know now I'm off on a tangent but doesn't it boil down to the same thing? Blackhawk loads are not recommended for the old Colts so once again it's following best practices and someone's recommendation. Anyway, if you ever make your way out to MO and specifically to Green Valley R&P Club get a hold of me. We would have a blast launching lead and shooting the S as they say.
     


  15. JLibourel

    JLibourel Senior member

    Messages:
    8,663
    Likes Received:
    412
    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2004
    ^Thanks for the invitation. If I ever get out to Missouri--and I have several friends that state--I'll try to take you up on it. It sounds like fun.

    As for your injunction to follow the manufacturer's instructions to the letter no matter what any of us have to say, do you take that so far as to never use handloads in your guns? I believe most manufacturers still enjoin the buyer never use handloaded ammunition.

    Interestingly the only time I have ever had a gun blow I was using factory ammo--some hot Cor-Bon loads. It happened on 1911 Day (the 100th anniversary of its adoption on March 29, 1911). To celebrate, I took a couple of favorite 1911s out, and, lo, the barrel on my Wilson customized Norinco ruptured. I believe the cause was a flaw in the Wilson barrel. I sent the remains back to Wilson to see if anything could be salvaged, but they said the pistol was a total loss.
     


Share This Page

Styleforum is proudly sponsored by