Grenadine Ties: Kent Wang $75 or Sam Hober $90 ?

[voxsartoria]

Originally Posted by Reevolving

Actually, it makes a lot of sense. I don't make the distinctions above.
I'm assumming you're talking about width at the skinny end to affect the type of knot outcome
Well, I don't give a sh*t what the knot looks like.... They all look "fine" to me. I tie a 4 in hand.
Hence, I am happy with something that is "normal" and typical for any high quality RTW tie.

Has your thread been worth $15 of your time?


- B

 

[Reevolving]

Originally Posted by Orgetorix

Hey, there's like a 3% chance he actually wants to be enlightened. Maybe.

Actually, I want a grenadine tie, and want to know why anyone would spend $90 instead of $75.
It's not rocket science... So far, I haven't seen a single good reason beyond custom width.

 

[KObalto]

Originally Posted by Reevolving

Well, I don't give a sh*t what the knot looks like.... They all look "fine" to me.

If this is true, why are you concerned with better ties? Just go to Men's Wearhouse.

 

[Reevolving]

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

Has your thread been worth $15 of your time?
- B

It's not about money.
It's trying to find out if I can benefit from a bespoke tie.
So far, the arguments are weak, or simply don't apply to me.

Let's say someone offered bespoke paper clips...
Well, even if they cost the same, what would I specify?
I just need a paper clip in the right size. Get it?

Right now, it makes no sense to me, if you can find ties in the width you desire.
To me, that is the only variable in a tie, assuming fabric and pattern are constant.

 

[KObalto]

Originally Posted by Kent Wang

I used to use the closer weave but have now switched to the more open weave.

Sorry, Kent. I was just judging from what I could observe on your website on my monitor, an imperfect science at best. As I said, I haven't seen your grenadines, but love your stuff in general. I think there are only one or two mills left in Italy that make the "open weave" grenadine cloth. I could be wrong.

 

[Macallan9]

Originally Posted by Reevolving

Jesus Christ is right. There are some true low-IQ imbeciles on this forum. Please re-read my question, b/c it is clear you don't understand it. Do you understand the difference between custom ordered and good construction? One does NOT predicate the other. Correlation does not mean causation.

I am asking what the difference b/w a RTW grenadine tie and a bespoke tie is.
Beyond width/length, and now "knot type", doesn't seem like anywhere here knows....
And since I have no clue about knot type, bespoke is a farce, b/c I wouldn't know what to ask for.
Truly amazing this is lost on some of the readers here. Amazing.

 

[Reevolving]

Originally Posted by KObalto

If this is true, why are you concerned with better ties? Just go to Men's Wearhouse.
Do they have Grenadine ties in 3 or 3 1/4 width? Are you able to understand that wanting the above does not necessitate needing a custom knot? The pitiful logic aptitude here is disturbing.

 

[KObalto]

Originally Posted by Reevolving

Do they have Grenadine ties in 3 or 3 1/4 width?
Are you able to understand that wanting the above does not necessitate needing a custom knot?
The pitiful logic aptitude here is disturbing.

My diplomatic skills have failed me. You do not know **** about what makes a nice tie if you think they all knot the same. Hober offers bespoke, but it's not about a "custom knot" per se grasshopper.

 

[Reevolving]

David, let me try another angle. I am starting to sense that I've uncovered some variation of "Emperor Wears No Clothes". This is evidenced by how uncomfortable and hostile the people on this forum have become, while offering virtually no facts or empirical support in favor of bespoke ties. ("You're a troll" and "Go to Target" is not scientifically valid, and reflects low IQ) I will accept your assertion that bespoke ties have better DE FACTO construction, even though I don't feel it is a causal relationship. But, it begs the question: Do people buy your ties for the superior construction or the ability to specify custom details? (Or both, naturally) I am interested in the latter. Perhaps this will clear it up: David, What are the 5 most common bespoke modifications people request when ordering a Hober tie? Perhaps this will make it more clear to me what advantage a bespoke tie confers, and what off the rack ties are missing. (Like higher armholes, high arch last, slim taper sleeves, or a low rise pant, tapered leg, or a slim fit shirt, ticket pocket, fat/skinny lapel, or custom placket/button/cuff/collar style. These are all very obvious and very valid reasons for bespoke items.)

 

[Reevolving]

Originally Posted by KObalto

Hober offers bespoke, but it's not about a "custom knot" per se grasshopper.

Originally Posted by Sam Hober

[Bespoke/custom made includes many things beyond width as other posters have noted. For example length, shape, construction, knot ...
Actually, Hober implied a "custom knot" (along with shape and length) in his original reply above.

 

[Newcomer]

You obviously did not read his thread wherein he stated all of the reasons why bespoke differs from RTW. And if you do not know what type of knot you like with a tie, then you need to work towards discovering this. Further, the shape of a tie makes a very large difference, lay side by side a rubinacci tie and say... a Brooks Brothers, or even a tie from Drakes. All of them will be cut differently. Just like a suit, shoes, or anything else sartorially... the details are what cause one brand to transcend another.

As for width, there are many people that are bothered by wider or shorter grenadines. Bespoke lets one decide their own preference without being pigeon-holed into a certain size.

As for Sam Hober or Kent Wang--both of them are fine people, who offer excellent products, and you cannot go wrong either way. They are different though.

 

[Newcomer]

Originally Posted by Reevolving

Actually, Hober implied a "custom knot" (along with shape and length) in his original reply above.
Try reading again.

He said 'per se,' meaning in itself. Which means that Kobalto was trying to say that the custom knot was not the only element important to the bespoke process, despite your assertion that it was.

 

[Sam Hober]

Originally Posted by Reevolving

..... Do you understand the difference between custom ordered and good construction? One does NOT predicate the other. Correlation does not mean causation.

I am asking what the difference b/w a RTW grenadine tie and a bespoke tie is.
Beyond width/length, and now "knot type", doesn't seem like anywhere here knows....
And since I have no clue about knot type, bespoke is a farce, b/c I wouldn't know what to ask for.
Truly amazing this is lost on some of the readers here. Amazing.

Reevolving,
Custom made ties will 99.9% of the time be better made than a ready made tie in terms of construction. There are a number of reasons why.

Also please note that we have 50 years of experience with making clothes both on a small bespoke scale as at present and in the past as a New York based ready made clothing company using our own factories. So we have a great deal of experience in clothing construction.

Which means that if for some reason you do not follow my statements I will politely ask you to simply trust my word on this subject.

1) Bespoke makers tend to be smaller companies and be more passionate about quality. To test this on your next vacation visit some small bespoke clothing companies in Italy and watch them at work. Note this tends to follow with food also.

2) Bespoke clothing makers tend to use better materials - with ties the silk is not an issue but the interlining quality is.

3) Bespoke ties tend to have razor sharp blades used to exactly custom fit the interlinings to the tie one by one.

4) Bespoke (and the best ready made ties) will have the silk cut one by one for each tie which results in better pattern matching and alignment.

5) The length of a tie is very important as it effects your knot and the proper positioning. For example all things being equal a half Windsor needs two inches more in length than a four-in-hand knot.

6) With made to measure tie (Not bespoke) if you ask for an adjustment to your knot size the maker will typically add or subtract interlining. With a bespoke tie we will redesign your pattern and make the knot/middle of your tie wider or narrower.

7) The quality control/review process is very rigorous with bespoke clothing. If something is not perfect we simply take the tie or pocket square apart and start over - end of story. Typically this does not happen with ready made clothing.

8) "But, it begs the question: Do people buy your ties for the superior construction or the ability to specify custom details? (Or both, naturally) I am interested in the latter."

A very good question, some of our clients will order ties simply based on the designs and fabric, some for our quality, and many for the ability to customize their ties and have their patterns on file for future orders. Some gentlemen order because they enjoy a long standing relationship with us.

Most of the time it is a mix of the above.

9) 5 common customizations - not in any order

A) Length
B) Width
C) Stripe direction (British or American)
D) Weight
E) Construction type

Note your height and weight effect the length and width

) Finally - for today - my daughter's name is on the label - I rest my case.

I could go on and on but I think you are getting the idea now and you can easily see that there are many differences between a ready made tie and a custom made one.

If not a public post may not be of further help, instead I invite you to contact me directly at your leisure.

 

[Sam Hober]

Originally Posted by KObalto

..... think there are only one or two mills left in Italy that make the "open weave" grenadine cloth. I could be wrong.

Kobalto,

You are correct, as far as I know there are only two mills weaving grenadine silk both in Italy.

Fermo Fossati which is the oldest weaver in Italy and of grenadine silks whom we use and another popular silk mill - Bianchi.

Hopefully, Kent will be able to tell us where his silk is woven so that the mystery will be laid to rest.

 

[R-H]

David you are a very patient man.