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great leaders, who are your favorites?

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by lee lin, Mar 6, 2008.

  1. feynmix

    feynmix Senior member

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    Gandhi, not Ghandhi.
    Mandela
    MLK
    Churchill
    Lincoln
     
  2. imageWIS

    imageWIS Senior member

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    Warren Buffett.

    Jon.
     
  3. madison avenue

    madison avenue Senior member

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  4. globetrotter

    globetrotter Senior member

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    churchill
    WT Sherman
    US Grant
    attaturk
    Thedore Herzel
     
  5. globetrotter

    globetrotter Senior member

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    Lee was complex. He was certainly a gifted soldier. He was also a product of his time. He'd have been viewed differently if he'd accepted Lincoln's offer to lead the US Army. At the end of the war, he was nearly solely responsible for stopping other Southerners from extending the war through guerrilla means. I think that there's a fair argument that this doesn't absolve him from his responsibility in it, however. I respect Lee generally, but he also has a lot to answer for.

    Boy, I have had this disccussion many times. I would argue that Lee was not such a great miiitary man. he was a great gentleman, but if I had to send my son to servie with Grant or Lee, I would chose Grant any day of the week. I'd prefer Sherman though, if given a chance.

    Lee was a fantastic 1820 general fighting a war in 1862. Sherman was a 1940 General fighting a war in 1862.
     
  6. globetrotter

    globetrotter Senior member

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    In no particular order


    Hugo Chavez
    Idi Amin
    Kofi Annan
    Yasser Arafat
    Bashar Al-Assad


    care to eleborate?
     
  7. Mark from Plano

    Mark from Plano Senior member

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    Boy, I have had this disccussion many times. I would argue that Lee was not such a great miiitary man. he was a great gentleman, but if I had to send my son to servie with Grant or Lee, I would chose Grant any day of the week. I'd prefer Sherman though, if given a chance.

    Lee was a fantastic 1820 general fighting a war in 1862. Sherman was a 1940 General fighting a war in 1862.


    Well...Lee was a master at strategic operations. He lost the war on tactics attempting to pursue the only winning strategy open to him.

    He did infinitely more with substantially less than anyone could have been expected to do. Virtually no one at the time understood the technological impact on tactics. Longstreet did, and Lee can be faulted for overruling Longstreet on any number of occassions (Picketts charge being of course the most important and decisive).

    But if we're going to play whose is bigger with Generals in that war, my vote has to go to Jackson. That he died early in the war may be the principal reason the North was able to come back and win.

    Lincoln's great contribution as a president in the civil war was his management of his general staff. The one he inherited was seriously flawed and it required him to nearly completely turn it over before the end of the war to find a formula for victory. He found it in Grant and Grant brought with him Sherman. That was the key. A lesson our current president would have been well served to learn much earlier in his term.
     
  8. kakemono

    kakemono Senior member

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  9. globetrotter

    globetrotter Senior member

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    Well...Lee was a master at strategic operations. He lost the war on tactics attempting to pursue the only winning strategy open to him.

    He did infinitely more with substantially less than anyone could have been expected to do.


    actually, to be fair that is probrably an extremly accurate way of putting it. I think that one of Lee's biggest constraints was simply the culture of the people he was leading, and the economic structure of the South at the time.

    I would suggest that both grant and sherman did, and for almost exactly the same reason why so few of the southern generals did. Both Grant and sherman had spent stretches in civillian lives as managers (and both were very familiar with railroads). Sherman has spent a large chunk of his time studying the geography and culture of the south, and had lived there for a period of time.
     
  10. GQgeek

    GQgeek Senior member

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    Nero was nothing more than a poor misguided kid manipulated by the ruthless Roman political system. Far from a "great" leader. Or even a "pretty good" leader.

    That's a little erroneous. Certainly his mother wanted to manipulate him, but she initially found herself with less power than under Claudius (where she orchestrated the death of many). Then she ended up dead with an anniversary to mark the joyous occasion. As far as I am aware, young as he was, he was his own man. If he had been easily manipulated by the political system, the Senatorial class would not have held him in such contempt. Everyone loves a puppet. Instead, he slaughtered them, and that's why they hated him. He also chose his people carefully. The reason Vespasian survived to be emperor was because he was a nobody. Nero was not worried about him, wherease he moved against others. Also, senators wrote the histories, and their bias is reflected in them. It should be noted that the majority of his executions were contained to that very small group of people.

    It also doesn't mean that he was not an effective ruler in other ways. Even Tacitus will concede that he administered laws quite fairly, did much to extend road networks, repair infrastructure, keep up the grain supply, etc. And although he was a bit of a spendthrift, who can blame him for being a patron of the arts? :p

    Anyway, I only put him in to rile conne, but he's not as bad as he's made out to be.
     
  11. gdl203

    gdl203 Senior member Dubiously Honored Affiliate Vendor

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    In no particular order

    George Bush
    Jimmy Carter
    Jagoff Running Iran
    Hugo Chavez
    Idi Amin
    Ghaddafi
    Castro
    Nancy Pelosi
    Barbara Boxer
    Musharaff
    Ayatolla Khomeini
    Kofi Annan
    Yasser Arafat
    Bashar Al-Assad


    You forgot Иосиф Сталин, Pol Pot and Kim Jong-Il
     
  12. imageWIS

    imageWIS Senior member

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    You forgot Иосиф Сталин, Pol Pot and Kim Jong-Il

    And of course leader No. 1:

    [​IMG]

    Jon.
     
  13. James Bond

    James Bond Senior member

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  14. Coho

    Coho Senior member

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    Napoleon I [​IMG] Pericles [​IMG]
     
  15. RJman

    RJman Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Hannibal.
    Alexander.
    Lincoln
    FDR
    Churchill
     
  16. LabelKing

    LabelKing Senior member

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    Louis XIV
    Cardinal Richelieu
    Cardinal Mazarin--Mazarin was apparently quite fond of luxury goods--always a good thing; when he was on his deathbed surrounded by his expensive goods, he intoned, "To think that I have to leave all this behind," or something to that effect.
     
  17. Southern-Nupe

    Southern-Nupe Senior member

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    And of course leader No. 1:

    [​IMG]

    Jon.

    Jon,

    You beat me to it.
     
  18. Jerome

    Jerome Senior member

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    Firstly, everyone in a leading position has to be per definition, ruthless and also corrupt and at least a bit of a hypocrit- those are simply the rules of the game. Secondly I have not known any leader great or not personally so in the end could not say how accomplished a person he was. (Thou shall not judge and all that.)

    Judging from the historical records I like Alexander III of Macedonia for his charisma and utterly crazy visionary delusions, emperor Nero for feeling a closeness of character and maybe Queen Ranavalona of Madagascar...as well as Catharina di Medici..

    p.s. Kleomenes III was also cool: the last Spartan king of any worth, btw...
     
  19. The Deacon

    The Deacon Senior member

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    Bumpy Johnson
    Malcolm X
    Lyndon Johnson
    Gandhi
    Pope John Paul
    Mandela
    Cab Calloway
    Robert H. Prince, Jr.-author of "Foot prince in the snow"
     
  20. Tangfastic

    Tangfastic Senior member

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    Caractacus, Boudica, Hannibal, Zenobia & Spartacus.
    Bloody Romans.
     

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