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Gravati shoes

linux_pro

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Does anyone have a pair of Gravati shoes in their wardrobe that they could compare with Crockett & Jones? Still trying to figure out what I should pick up for some nice brown shoes (worn with suits in a work environment). I found a pair of Gravatis on Ron's (Rider) site that I like (http://www.francos.com/items/item.asp?sku5=86868), I think the leather on this shoe is just beautiful. But I have no idea how the Gravatis wear, hold up, compare to C&J, etc. I am willing to pay up to ~$800 for a pair of good brown shoes, just can't seem to come up with anything that overwhelms me and flips that switch in the brain that tells you, "Yes. Those are the ones." I want some shoes that will be beautiful, comfortable and durable. I have no experience at all with C&J, and can't find anywhere to try a pair on here in Seattle, so I have to rely on feedback here.
 

JAB

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Hi, I have no experience with C&J but I do own several pairs of Gravatis. I had mostly worn (and still wear) Alden, Church's (gasp
), Ferragamo, Zegna, etc. before being turned on to Gravati and they have since become one of my favorite brands. What has really sold me on them has been their comfort factor; I find that they require far less breaking in than any other shoes I have owned (especially the peccary and kangaroo models). I can also wholeheartedly recommend Ron Rider. I have ordered Gravatis from him and the service was first rate. Hope this helps. Regards, Jason
 

drizzt3117

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I have a couple pairs of C&J shoes, have tried on Gravati but they haven't been my style at all. For $800, you can afford Greens, so you may wish to check those out as well. Here are some brown shoes to check out, BTW the shoes below are about $400/pr from Plal, so you could get two pairs for your $800. http://www.plal.com/crockett/hires/Audley.jpg http://www.plal.com/crockett/hires/Weymouth.jpg And for the ultimate shoe/watch porn, I can't resist posting this one again...
 

lisapop

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Coincidentally, I recently purchased my first pr. of Gravati shoes from Ron, the soft-leather wholecuts, and am very favorably impressed with them.  Ron opened my eyes to another excellent brand he represents, Martegani, which I like even more.  I own several pr. of C&J shoes as well as Edward Green (RTW and bespoke), Weston, Vass, John Lobb Paris & London (bespoke), and Tanino Crisci, and I've told Ron I think Gravati and Martegani more than hold their own in terms of workmanship, artistry, comfort, and value.  At around $425 or so, Gravati compares favorably with C&J, which last time I checked were running in the $500-$600 range.  TC's prices are out of sight, often approaching $800-$900 for a pr. of shoes.  Gravati enjoys more of an artisanal quality, C&J more of a factory-made quality.  This is not to disparage C&J, which I hold in high esteem, it's that Gravati edges them out as being among my special shoes.  Leaving aside the issue of Goodyear vs. Blake construction, which isn't an issue for me, Gravati exhudes outstanding workmanship: stitching is truly impeccable, with reinforcment stitching that most people would not notice, yet Gravati felt worth implementing.  They have not cut any corners in order to offer relatively modest prices.  Not one stitch was flawed, crooked, etc. on my Gravati shoes, whereas C&J does have crooked, occassionally sloppy, stitching here and there.  The softness of the leather of the Gravati shoes renders them much more comfortable and luxurious than anything C&J offers.  The finish of my shoes and others from Gravati I've seen far surpasses that of C&J.  Unless I see something unique from TC I must have, I can't see myself buying TC any longer with all that Gravati has to offer.  Finally, I think Gravati shoes embody a "sexiness" in design and craftsmanship, owing perhaps to their Italian pedigree, that C&J just doesn't possess.  Doing business with Ron is also infinitely more practical than with C&J, at least for me, residing in the US.  Ron is extremely knowledgeable about all facets of shoe construction (More knowledgeable than the C&J sales folks), and with Ron you receive much more personal attention: He will e-mail you photos of shoes that are not on his Website and send you leather swatches.  He'll also send those who live out-of-town shoes for fitting purposes.  He'll also gladly do one-off designs, especially with Martegani, so you enjoy much greater style and design-flexibility than with C&J.
Grayson
 

jcusey

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Does anyone have a pair of Gravati shoes in their wardrobe that they could compare with Crockett & Jones?
I own both Gravati and Crockett & Jones shoes. They're really different animals. C&J make typical English shoes: Goodyear-welted shoes made with stiff calfskin uppers and stiff linings. The models offered are typically very traditional, and most non-traditional stuff is just slightly non-traditional. Well-made shoes, although the prices that they're available for in this country are too high for them to be a good value. You can get better prices from overseas operations like Pediwear and PLal, but buying shoes without the opportunity to try them on is always something of a gamble.

Gravati doesn't make typical English shoes. Although they can do a Goodyear-welted shoe, I've never seen them at retail. Most of their shoes are Bologna-constructed, Blake-constructed, or Blake/Rapid-constructed. As a practical matter, this means that the soles of the shoes are more flexible than the soles of C&J shoes and that resoling is more problematic (not because it can't be done but rather because fewer shops in the US have the necessary machinery to do it). The upper and lining leather that Gravati uses is also typically much softer than what the English manufacturers use (although they do source from some of the same tanneries). The shoe that you're interested in is made from Radica 033 calf, which is very, very soft and completely unlike anything that I've seen from an English manufacturer. Finally, Gravati offers many, many more patterns and production and finishing options than any English manufacturer I've ever heard of, including Edward Green, the king of English special order. A lot of people say they don't like the look of Gravati shoes. This may be true, but what they really mean is that they don't like what a particular retailer has done with Gravati shoes. Gravati is more than happy to give the retailer enough rope to hang himself; and if you look at the Gravati selection at a store like Bergdorf Goodman, you can see that some retailers take full advantage of this to string themselves up. Ron Rider has more sense and buys better-looking shoes (as does Jim Pierce at Harold's in the Heights).

I wear my Gravati shoes much more frequently than I wear my C&J shoes. I just like them better: better look, better fit, more comfortable, etc. Your milage may vary depending on the peculiarities of your foot. Frankly, I'd much rather spend $425 on a pair of Gravati shoes than on a pair of C&J shoes, but that's just me.
 

linux_pro

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Wow. That was all excellent feedback. I've now reread those posts about 4 times. Thank you jcusey and lisapop both for very in-depth and helpful information. I think I am going to go with the Gravati shoes. I just love that leather.

If you don't mind my asking, what difference is there between blake and goodyear welting? Does one not hold up as long as the others? Any advantages / disadvantages? I'm researching this online also. Thank you.
 

regularjoe

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If you don't mind my asking, what difference is there between blake and goodyear welting?  Does one not hold up as long as the others?  Any advantages / disadvantages?  I'm researching this online also.  Thank you.
AHarris posted a great primer on this forum this past week. I'm sure you'll find it.
 

MilanoStyle

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Does anyone have a pair of Gravati shoes in their wardrobe that they could compare with Crockett & Jones? Â Still trying to figure out what I should pick up for some nice brown shoes (worn with suits in a work environment). Â I found a pair of Gravatis on Ron's (Rider) site that I like (http://www.francos.com/items/item.asp?sku5=86868), I think the leather on this shoe is just beautiful. Â But I have no idea how the Gravatis wear, hold up, compare to C&J, etc. Â I am willing to pay up to ~$800 for a pair of good brown shoes, just can't seem to come up with anything that overwhelms me and flips that switch in the brain that tells you, "Yes. Â Those are the ones." Â I want some shoes that will be beautiful, comfortable and durable. I have no experience at all with C&J, and can't find anywhere to try a pair on here in Seattle, so I have to rely on feedback here.
I do not know what kind of styling you want. Heve looked at http://www.santonishoes.com/ I am sure that you will find something nice there.
 

norcaltransplant

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LP,

I guess AHarris hasn't read your post yet, so I'll make a go.

Aside from the selection Rider offers, Wilkes Bashford probably has the best selection of Gravati on the West Coast. Gravati, like most artisanal manufacturers, produces a variety of made-to-order styles for specific vendors (specifically WB, Bergdorf, and even Francos).

In regards to construction, Gravati makes an extremely flexible sole--attributable partly to construction (blake) and party to the calfskin used. Considering the weather in Seattle, I think you would be better off buying a thin Rubber sole Gravati instead of the traditional leather sole.

I think the most appropriate analogy would be Gravati is one step above Moreschi in the quality department and a 1.5 steps ahead in the design department (few, if any bombs. The same cannot be said for Moreschi).
 

jcusey

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In regards to construction, Gravati makes an extremely flexible sole--attributable partly to construction (blake) and party to the calfskin used. Considering the weather in Seattle, I think you would be better off buying a thin Rubber sole Gravati instead of the traditional leather sole.
If you'll allow me to quibble a little bit:

Virtually all Gravatis are either Blake-constructed (probably the majority of all Gravati production by a substantial margin) or Bologna-constructed. Both construction methods typically produce a flexible shoe, the Bologna more so. Blake-constructed shoes are typically less weather-proof than Goodyear-welted shoes because the stitching goes from the insole through the bottom of the outsole. This means that the thread can act as a wick that will suck moisture on the ground up into the inside of the shoe. The fact that Gravati leather soles are typically channelled will mitigate this problem, however. Still, you're certainly correct that a rubber sole would be more weatherproof, and Gravati has a variety of good rubber soles.
 

loveartioli

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In regards to construction, Gravati makes an extremely flexible sole--attributable partly to construction (blake) and party to the calfskin used. Considering the weather in Seattle, I think you would be better off buying a thin Rubber sole Gravati instead of the traditional leather sole.
If you'll allow me to quibble a little bit: Virtually all Gravatis are either Blake-constructed (probably the majority of all Gravati production by a substantial margin) or Bologna-constructed. Both construction methods typically produce a flexible shoe, the Bologna more so. Blake-constructed shoes are typically less weather-proof than Goodyear-welted shoes because the stitching goes from the insole through the bottom of the outsole. This means that the thread can act as a wick that will suck moisture on the ground up into the inside of the shoe. The fact that Gravati leather soles are typically channelled will mitigate this problem, however. Still, you're certainly correct that a rubber sole would be more weatherproof, and Gravati has a variety of good rubber soles.
These are one pair of New Gravati I bought ,it is Gravati specially made for the Avi Rossinni Nissani, Calf leather and Grain calf leather mixed with bologna-construction,beautiful burgundy color with patina,anyone can tell how about the quality ,construction ,leather used for this pair of shoes?



 

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