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Neo1

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or raise the level of humor in relation to a person with sufficient self-irony.
as 7_rocket did.
Just read through the exchange - I think stook1 & others did a damn good job already but I wanted to mention an experience from a couple (or so) years ago.

I brannock at 7.5C but I have a high instep - especially on my right foot. I basically have to fit that and deal with the rest. High cone / high vamp lasts ironically seem to be a deal-breaker for me, as the minute the vamp is taken out of the equation, the shoes better be as narrow as humanly possible or they're no longer gonna work. I visited a Loake store in Ireland - I was impressed with how much inventory they had on-hand, and i was able to try tons of styles in really low sizes. Suffice to say, I was shocked when pair after pair, every single thing I tried on was sloppy too big. I stuck to 6UK in length but tried F regular, F narrow, E, even E narrow I believe and nothing worked at all. When I say things didn't work, I mean they REALLY didn't work. Towards the end they were trying to push me into a 5.5UK, E which just felt off - it was better but the whole alignment was wrong and the shoes felt kind of too short.

Historically I have had trouble with AE's high cone lasts but nothing to that extreme. With the AE lasts I can basically blind-buy a 7D and the cone height may make the fit sloppy but the length & width are correct otherwise.

Bottom line - I would try something that's not European made or English, whether it be from Red Wing, AE, Alden, whatever you can get your hands on. I own more than a few pairs of my own at this point (I could say 130 but then the Meermin guys might come beating on me with thermoplastic heel counters and unamed tannery reject shell) but have yet to dive into Carmina after that experience (although I could probably make the Uetam & Simpson work).

Just my 2 cents.
 

jam tangan

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Just read through the exchange - I think stook1 & others did a damn good job already but I wanted to mention an experience from a couple (or so) years ago.

I brannock at 7.5C but I have a high instep - especially on my right foot. I basically have to fit that and deal with the rest. High cone / high vamp lasts ironically seem to be a deal-breaker for me, as the minute the vamp is taken out of the equation, the shoes better be as narrow as humanly possible or they're no longer gonna work. I visited a Loake store in Ireland - I was impressed with how much inventory they had on-hand, and i was able to try tons of styles in really low sizes. Suffice to say, I was shocked when pair after pair, every single thing I tried on was sloppy too big. I stuck to 6UK in length but tried F regular, F narrow, E, even E narrow I believe and nothing worked at all. When I say things didn't work, I mean they REALLY didn't work. Towards the end they were trying to push me into a 5.5UK, E which just felt off - it was better but the whole alignment was wrong and the shoes felt kind of too short.

Historically I have had trouble with AE's high cone lasts but nothing to that extreme. With the AE lasts I can basically blind-buy a 7D and the cone height may make the fit sloppy but the length & width are correct otherwise.

Bottom line - I would try something that's not European made or English, whether it be from Red Wing, AE, Alden, whatever you can get your hands on. I own more than a few pairs of my own at this point (I could say 130 but then the Meermin guys might come beating on me with thermoplastic heel counters and unamed tannery reject shell) but have yet to dive into Carmina after that experience (although I could probably make the Uetam & Simpson work).

Just my 2 cents.
very grateful for sharing their experiences. it looks like it's non-standard.
I am also grateful to all the members of the forum who paid me their attention
and gave me advice according to their experience.
nevertheless, I am inclined to believe that there are contradictions.
on the one hand, I am advised to "blindly" follow the GS recommendation.
on the other hand, it is advised to try on the shoes of famous brands and compare them
with leo-lasts. and finally closing the "syllogism-circle": "leo-last is unique and your attempts
to compare the incomprehensible Grenson with the GS are absurd (crossed out) wrong."
and thanks again!

ps.
considering the site white's boots. I'm getting the impression that they are using a UK sizing chart.
the British and American system itself differ in only one thing. the British one starts from a conditional zero,
and the American one is shifted one step forward. therefore, it is correct when they (competent manufacturers)
indicate 9uk = 10 us (= ~ 289-290mm length-of-last) 9.5uk = 10.5 us (= ~ 294-295mm). and so on.
 
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M635Guy

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very grateful for sharing their experiences. it looks like it's non-standard.
I am also grateful to all the members of the forum who paid me their attention
and gave me advice according to their experience.
nevertheless, I am inclined to believe that there are contradictions.
on the one hand, I am advised to "blindly" follow the GS recommendation.
on the other hand, it is advised to try on the shoes of famous brands and compare them
with leo-lasts. and finally closing the "syllogism-circle": "leo-last is unique and your attempts
to compare the incomprehensible Grenson with the GS are absurd (crossed out) wrong."
and thanks again!

ps.
considering the site white's boots. I'm getting the impression that they are using a UK sizing chart.
the British and American system itself differ in only one thing. the British one starts from a conditional zero,
and the American one is shifted one step forward. therefore, it is correct when they (competent manufacturers)
indicate 9uk = 10 us (= ~ 289-290mm length-of-last) 9.5uk = 10.5 us (= ~ 294-295mm). and so on.
Jam. Brother. You are not getting contradictory advice. You are getting advice that offers multiple ways to get to a sizing. The shoes are extremely predictable for sizing - unless your feet are very unusual (as our friend @Neo1 unfortunately has), your chance to find a good fit are excellent.

If you reliably know your Brannock size: Go 1/2 down in all lasts except Oliver (which is TTS Brannock). Widths map directly to Brannock.

If you have shoes that fit you comfortably: Give those makes/models/sizes to the team at Grant Stone and provided they are mainstream enough to be recognized and your impressions are detailed/accurate. Sneaker sizes can contribute to the discussion.

If you don't know your Brannock and don't have good information to offer on shoes you currently own: Go to a good shoe store and get sized by a pro. Provide that information to Grant Stone.

If you don't know your Brannock and don't have a shoe store: Print out a Brannock chart and use that. I'd take pix of it (and add a ruler to provide some certainty of scale) and send to Grant Stone.

Beyond that, I'm not sure there's much to do other than buy something locally. I'm not trying to be grumpy, but you're getting a lot of good advice here and none of it seems to be penetrating.

There is no contradiction in the sizing. Your feet are what they are. What's needed to connect these two things are information from you that doesn't need anything more than what's described above. Your understanding of it is especially unnecessary. I was 100% certain the loafer was going to be too small and probably too tight. Based on their knowledge and my trust in them, I bought the 11.5 thinking I'd really need a 12.

They fit great.
 

Neo1

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Jam. Brother. You are not getting contradictory advice. You are getting advice that offers multiple ways to get to a sizing. The shoes are extremely predictable for sizing - unless your feet are very unusual (as our friend @Neo1 unfortunately has), your chance to find a good fit are excellent.

If you reliably know your Brannock size: Go 1/2 down in all lasts except Oliver (which is TTS Brannock). Widths map directly to Brannock.

If you have shoes that fit you comfortably: Give those makes/models/sizes to the team at Grant Stone and provided they are mainstream enough to be recognized and your impressions are detailed/accurate. Sneaker sizes can contribute to the discussion.

If you don't know your Brannock and don't have good information to offer on shoes you currently own: Go to a good shoe store and get sized by a pro. Provide that information to Grant Stone.

If you don't know your Brannock and don't have a shoe store: Print out a Brannock chart and use that. I'd take pix of it (and add a ruler to provide some certainty of scale) and send to Grant Stone.

Beyond that, I'm not sure there's much to do other than buy something locally. I'm not trying to be grumpy, but you're getting a lot of good advice here and none of it seems to be penetrating.

There is no contradiction in the sizing. Your feet are what they are. What's needed to connect these two things are information from you that doesn't need anything more than what's described above. Your understanding of it is especially unnecessary. I was 100% certain the loafer was going to be too small and probably too tight. Based on their knowledge and my trust in them, I bought the 11.5 thinking I'd really need a 12.

They fit great.
L-man! Did you just call me unusual.....lol.

You know I was thinking exactly what you wrote up in that reddit thread about GS just killing it as of late with their make-ups - I mean you like read my mind almost with that post. Loved reading it!

Edit: The fact that someone like me who is definitely wayyyy outside the bell curve is one of the few people giving fitting advice across the board on AE still amazes me. Thank god for madhat :)
 

stook1

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@Neo1 , speaking for myself (and likely others), I think your sizing post(s) regarding AE are really helpful in large part because you've offered relative sizing information for some of the more unusual lasts. Most at this point are familiar with 65, 511, etc. Not so much on some of the older or more esoteric lasts.

@M635Guy, my man -- you are a saint. This is the blunt/direct synopsis I'd tried to offer but seemingly failed to achieve. Well done, as usual. :)
 

M635Guy

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I just got a chance to open the Natty Kangaroo. It's rare that I'm at a loss for words... (though I'm going to have to find some)



very grateful for sharing their experiences. it looks like it's non-standard.
I am also grateful to all the members of the forum who paid me their attention
and gave me advice according to their experience.
nevertheless, I am inclined to believe that there are contradictions.
on the one hand, I am advised to "blindly" follow the GS recommendation.
on the other hand, it is advised to try on the shoes of famous brands and compare them
with leo-lasts. and finally closing the "syllogism-circle": "leo-last is unique and your attempts
to compare the incomprehensible Grenson with the GS are absurd (crossed out) wrong."
and thanks again!

ps.
considering the site white's boots. I'm getting the impression that they are using a UK sizing chart.
the British and American system itself differ in only one thing. the British one starts from a conditional zero,
and the American one is shifted one step forward. therefore, it is correct when they (competent manufacturers)
indicate 9uk = 10 us (= ~ 289-290mm length-of-last) 9.5uk = 10.5 us (= ~ 294-295mm). and so on.
I haven't seen the statements you're talking about. It's not blind trust, it's trust. Wyatt isn't infallible, but his knowledge of other makes and lasts is outstanding. Having a lot of experience with him, I trust him, and I'd recommend that you do as well. Blind trust means the other party is an unknown, which definitely isn't the case here.

As I said in the previous post, the recommendations to try other brands and report fit (whether in your ownership or in a store) is another data point.

Nobody has said your experience is absurd or wrong. I suppose it is fair to say the Leo last is unique - it was created by Grant Stone - but if you have good sizings to cross-reference a high-confidence recommendation is possible. I don't think this discussion fits the definition of a syllogism.

I'm baffled that you seem to think this process is giving you less clarity.
L-man! Did you just call me unusual.....lol.

You know I was thinking exactly what you wrote up in that reddit thread about GS just killing it as of late with their make-ups - I mean you like read my mind almost with that post. Loved reading it!

Edit: The fact that someone like me who is definitely wayyyy outside the bell curve is one of the few people giving fitting advice across the board on AE still amazes me. Thank god for madhat :)
Brother - the world would be a lame place without the unusual and the different ;)
 
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M635Guy

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For the first time in a very long time, I'm excited for the shoes I'm wearing tomorrow. Maybe even more than I was the Honey Shell Edwards (which is saying something)...
 

M635Guy

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You know I was thinking exactly what you wrote up in that reddit thread about GS just killing it as of late with their make-ups - I mean you like read my mind almost with that post. Loved reading it!
LoL - I meant it too. I'm now in a full-fledged closet emergency.

Our friends in Michigan are doing some great stuff - if there's a problem, it's an embarrassment of fantastic choices.
 

7_rocket

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Are those the Ottawa model in kangaroo? Damn they look awesome.

What camera are you using?
 
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M635Guy

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Are those the Ottawa model in kangaroo? Damn they look awesome.

What camera are you using?
Yup - Natural Kangaroo Ottawas. Guess I should edit to add that important detail... :rotflmao:

They are super-unique. I'm not kidding when I say they sorta left me speechless out of the box (a rare occurrence, and one my wife would probably appreciate less-rarely). They smell different than other veg-tan stuff I've smelled. They look different for both color and vibe - there's a lot of personality in the hide already, but it's...potential. They're one of those things you're really going to have to use to get the full character of - a blank canvas, kinda like a good pair of selvedge denim jeans. I've never had anything quite like it.

I didn't get to try them on today, but hoping it works out tomorrow. I'm literally looking forward to it.

The camera is just my Pixel 5a. I usually use my old Nikon D700 and some good glass for these pix, but too much chaos. These kinda defy the camera to capture them - I honestly don't think my full-frame DSLR and Photoshop would have had very different results.
 

RogerKaputnik

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I just got a chance to open the Natty Kangaroo. It's rare that I'm at a loss for words... (though I'm going to have to find some)




I haven't seen the statements you're talking about. It's not blind trust, it's trust. Wyatt isn't infallible, but his knowledge of other makes and lasts is outstanding. Having a lot of experience with him, I trust him, and I'd recommend that you do as well. Blind trust means the other party is an unknown, which definitely isn't the case here.

As I said in the previous post, the recommendations to try other brands and report fit (whether in your ownership or in a store) is another data point.

Nobody has said your experience is absurd or wrong. I suppose it is fair to say the Leo last is unique - it was created by Grant Stone - but if you have good sizings to cross-reference a high-confidence recommendation is possible. I don't think this discussion fits the definition of a syllogism.

I'm baffled that you seem to think this process is giving you less clarity.


Brother - the world would be a lame place without the unusual and the different ;)
Those are awesome! The 8.5E was gone about a microsecond after they went live. The Leo, despite the impressive array of sizes, is a difficult last for me to fit into, and there are no other close enough options.
 

M635Guy

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Those are awesome! The 8.5E was gone about a microsecond after they went live. The Leo, despite the impressive array of sizes, is a difficult last for me to fit into, and there are no other close enough options.
Short of the legal weirdness around kangaroo leather becoming a national phenomenon, I can't imagine these won't be back. I mean, I think they're going to require a commitment - wear them often, wear them in a lot of different situations and let them tell a story. Maybe that's not for everyone, and the starting point is a bit stark - like a blank canvas. But boy I'm looking forward to seeing what the art looks like...

The closes thing I can equate these too in terms of initial impact is unglazed shell. Reading around it seems I'm not the first person to have that thought, and it appears the patina process here gets going pretty fast.
 

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