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Hotel Cali

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Fair enough, I have had just the opposite with the shoes, good heel cup fit (with dress socks). But since everyones feet are different............. In fact, the dress shoes fit so well, they have replace AE PA/5th ave in my rotation.
I think I would have bought at least three more shoe pairs if the heel experience was similar to boots (3 boots, 2 shoes). I also wanted to grab a couple loafers but hesitant about the heels also.
 

Erikdayo

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I like the heels on the Grant Stone loafers, but I feel that loafers in general aren't a great fit for me. The loafer heels are snug 1 full size down from brannock, and the collar being angled in helps too. Some other brands don't hold onto my foot as well because of the collar shape.
 

RogerKaputnik

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It's Saddle Tan Friday (in case you didn't know). Was just going to comment - did about 3 miles of walking today to/from/at work and my heels started getting a little tender, albeit this is break-in time.

My perspective is a V-shaped foot, wide in front and narrow bony heels, with high arches. My experience with 8.5E LWB & dress socks has been great with the heels The 7.5EEE veg tans are great width wise, but there is some room for my heels to move a bit. And that is with my beloved Chups, so there is some break-in needed. These are stiff DL soles, but interestingly I notice the heel counters/cups are considerably softer or more forgiving than most of my boots from other manufacturers like Alden or Viberg. Not sure what the implications of that are though. Normally don't cuff my pants but had to get those Chups in the photo.

IMG_9838.jpeg


IMG_9837.jpeg


IMG_9842.jpeg
 

NYCTechNerd

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I find the Leo heel to fit snug, in a good way.
I have low volume, low instep, skinny ankles, etc. I'd say my heel probably on the narrower side considering my 9.5D brannock size? Overall I'd say the Leo heel is comfortable and fits well but isn't super snug with the thin socks I wear with my LWB. With my Grant Stone boots + cushioned boot socks the fit is great. I'm not sure if you've ever tried Alden's Trubalance last. That is the main one I find quite loose fitting. Not in a way that my heel is sliding up and down with the laces tightened, but the amount of space for side to side movement is noteworthy.

I'm not sure if that helps at all. I feel like sock choice can make a big difference if you feel your feet aren't filling out the footwear well enough. I am a big fan of Darn Tough cushioned boot socks. I've tried the full cushion boot socks too, but I don't like the feeling they give on top of my feet.
Yes, I am most concerned about my heel fit side to side as I can cinch down laces to keep my heel from going up and down in the heel cup but the side to side motion is the issue.

I wear merino wool socks that are most often thicker than standard cotton or synthetic dress socks (and most wool socks). And, my shoe size has actually shrunk over the last few years 10.5D to 10D branock which makes no sense to me so I am getting rid of some older shoes and trying to get a few new pair that can serve multiple work-casual and personal-causal environments.

I am going to offer a different opinion so OP can get both perspective.
Boots: Great snug heel that is then wrapped snugly throughout ankle.
Shoes: Experienced 2 shoes with loose heels with shallow heel cup. Thus not a great heel grip.
Boots often "feel" snugger due to the all the extra material wrapped tightly around ones ankle when compared to a shoe. So the added height of the boot is what might keep ones foot in the heel cup rather than it fitting well. And, I am not a big fan of boots, other than for snow/rain/mud so I am focused on PTBs for now.

Fair enough, I have had just the opposite with the shoes, good heel cup fit (with dress socks). But since everyones feet are different............. In fact, the dress shoes fit so well, they have replace AE PA/5th ave in my rotation.
I was hoping for a quick answer but should have known even with all the helpful people here I may not get a sample size large enough to make a true determination (so hoping @GrantStone might chime in). I spent most of the past few months ordering and returning AE shoes of different lasts and sizes (and even went to 2 different stores to get fitted when they opened again) to determine only 2 things actually work for me. I do not want to go through that again so I was hoping for an easy answer.

Alden has more than AE that does work for me and I can get to a store but I have heard such great things about Grant Stone I wanted to give them a try. If I could make a Dune CXL PTB, Dark Walnut CXL Country Derby, and a Suede LWB Derby work for me that might cover 95% of my current needs.
 

RogerKaputnik

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I was hoping for a quick answer but should have known even with all the helpful people here I may not get a sample size large enough to make a true determination (so hoping @GrantStone might chime in). I spent most of the past few months ordering and returning AE shoes of different lasts and sizes (and even went to 2 different stores to get fitted when they opened again) to determine only 2 things actually work for me.
Returns are painless with GS, jump in and give them a try!
 

Ben B

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Just a comment on the British tan LWBs I posted next to the pebble boots. Those have a LOT of miles on them and boy does that leather hold up well. They are from December 2016 so not sure if color has changed much on current production.
 

GrantStone

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Yes, I am most concerned about my heel fit side to side as I can cinch down laces to keep my heel from going up and down in the heel cup but the side to side motion is the issue.

I wear merino wool socks that are most often thicker than standard cotton or synthetic dress socks (and most wool socks). And, my shoe size has actually shrunk over the last few years 10.5D to 10D branock which makes no sense to me so I am getting rid of some older shoes and trying to get a few new pair that can serve multiple work-casual and personal-causal environments.



Boots often "feel" snugger due to the all the extra material wrapped tightly around ones ankle when compared to a shoe. So the added height of the boot is what might keep ones foot in the heel cup rather than it fitting well. And, I am not a big fan of boots, other than for snow/rain/mud so I am focused on PTBs for now.



I was hoping for a quick answer but should have known even with all the helpful people here I may not get a sample size large enough to make a true determination (so hoping @GrantStone might chime in). I spent most of the past few months ordering and returning AE shoes of different lasts and sizes (and even went to 2 different stores to get fitted when they opened again) to determine only 2 things actually work for me. I do not want to go through that again so I was hoping for an easy answer.

Alden has more than AE that does work for me and I can get to a store but I have heard such great things about Grant Stone I wanted to give them a try. If I could make a Dune CXL PTB, Dark Walnut CXL Country Derby, and a Suede LWB Derby work for me that might cover 95% of my current needs.
Happy to chime in!

To start, fit comments from customers is coming from their experience, usually in comparison to something else on their closet. This plays a large role as someone who regularly wears carmina and meermin would not say we have a snug/narrow heel base. However, most of our customers tend to wear North American brands that are fuller fitting all around.

Keeping this in mind, our lasts represent a generous ball and toe box area with a heel designed to keep the foot in place. Wide or narrow can be difficult to classify (and frequently misunderstood). A great last maker that has helped us over the years has said that goodyear welt brands in the past made the mistake of going narrower in the heel base in effort to hold the heel, which created the opposite effect. It wouldn’t allow the heel to seat properly. This still happens today but there isn’t necessarily a right or wrong because these are all RTW shoes. It’s more about identifying the average foot shape or a specific category and running with it.

I know that’s a little off topic as you have clearly identified you have a narrow heel, this is just something we see a lot.
With regard to your situation, our heel is not overly narrow but considering the lasts you listed above, the Leo may work well.

One thing I wanted to add was heel fit (or slip) is effected by many aspects. Of course the heel, ball and instep are crucial, but one in particular that is rarely discussed is the pitch of the last and heel. When a designer or last maker is making these calls, fit is not the only thing that comes into play (unfortunately), and frequently takes a backseat to the desired look.

Without going to far down this rabbit hole, the only way to really know is to try it on. And even worse, I firmly believe some people miss out by not giving the shoe enough time. Even a bespoke shoe won’t “fit like a glove” from lace up. And if it does, it’s still going to improve once worn. Especially when good materials are being used.

When customers have a very hard time with ball, instep or heel issues, we always suggest trying a suede shoe as well, if it’s an option. Upper material plays a very big role in how the shoe feels or even something specific as heel slip. When we weaest new patterns, we won’t use suede for this reason because it makes it more difficult to identify issues.
 
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audog

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Happy to chime in!

To start, fit comments from customers is coming from their experience, usually in comparison to something else on their closet. This plays a large role as someone who regularly wears carmina and meermin would not say we have a snug/narrow heel base. However, most of our customers tend to wear North American brands that are fuller fitting all around.

Keeping this in mind, our lasts represent a generous ball and toe box area with a heel designed to keep the foot in place. Wide or narrow can be difficult to classify (and frequently misunderstood). A great last maker that has helped us over the years has said that goodyear welt brands in the past made the mistake of going narrower in the heel base in effort to hold the heel, which created the opposite effect. It wouldn’t allow the heel to seat properly. This still happens today but there isn’t necessarily a right or wrong because these are all RTW shoes. It’s more about identifying the average foot shape or a specific category and running with it.

I know that’s a little off topic as you have clearly identified you have a narrow heel, this is just something we see a lot.
With regard to your situation, our heel is not overly narrow but considering the lasts you listed above, the Leo may work well.

One thing I wanted to add was heel fit (or slip) is effected by many aspects. Of course the ball and instep are crucial, but one in particular that is rarely discussed is the pitch of the last and heel. When a designer or last maker is making these calls, fit is not the only thing that comes into play (unfortunately), and frequently takes a backseat to the desired look.

Without going to far down this rabbit hole, the only way to really know is to try it on. And even worse, I firmly believe some people miss out by not giving the shoe enough time. Even a bespoke shoe won’t “fit like a glove” from lace up. And if it does, it’s still going to improve once worn. Especially when good materials are being used.

When customers have a very hard time with ball, instep or heel issues, we always suggest trying a suede shoe as well, if it’s an option. Upper material plays a very big role in how the shoe feels or even something specific as heel slip. When we weaest new patterns, we won’t use suede for this reason because it makes it more difficult to identify issues.
Well stated. As usual, when in doubt as to GS fit, go to the experts- GS themselves.
 

NYCTechNerd

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Without going to far down this rabbit hole, the only way to really know is to try it on. And even worse, I firmly believe some people miss out by not giving the shoe enough time. Even a bespoke shoe won’t “fit like a glove” from lace up. And if it does, it’s still going to improve once worn. Especially when good materials are being used.

When customers have a very hard time with ball, instep or heel issues, we always suggest trying a suede shoe as well, if it’s an option. Upper material plays a very big role in how the shoe feels or even something specific as heel slip. When we weaest new patterns, we won’t use suede for this reason because it makes it more difficult to identify issues.
"the only way to really know is to try it on" Truer words have never been spoken.

Through research and experience, I have learned that material does inform how a show will fit with:
- calf being the standard by which all others are measured and compared too
- shell not stretching (as much or at all) gets lasted in a way that is fuller immediately but never really gives
- suede often feels tighter initially and gives almost as much as calf

And, I think sometimes we all forget that (all) shoes are (mostly) handmade from (mostly) organic materials and thus two shoes made from the same type and batch of leather, on the same last, in the same size, by the same person, and on the same day may fit differently even if only by a small margin. These are not widgets being mass produced in ISO 9001 environments by robots using robust production methodologies (i.e. Toyota Production System, Lean Six Sigma) so there will be variances.

Live, learn, and try them on is my takeaway.
 

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