Gotten to a point you don't buy anything "nice/$" OTR ? Same price for MTM/bespoke?

[Nicola]

Originally Posted by ktrp

The vast majority of jackets I try on fit _horribly_. Relatively few seem anywhere close to fitting on me. I don't really know why.

Depending on why this may just be a case of trying different brands/lines until you find something that works for you. Too many people here get tied up with the label and ignore the bigger issue is the match between you and the item.

 

[Mute]

Depends on the OTR and the MTM. If the fit is close on the OTR item and I can get a decent discount, I'd get it if I really like it. With access to a good tailor, I can make the OTR item fit about as well as any MTM. Also, if you're going MTM instead of bespoke, you're probably trying to save some money which likely means the quality of the final MTM product may not necessarily be better than an OTR item. Even for a bespoke item, unless you're using one of the better known tailors, you may not be getting better overall quality than just going OTR.

I don't know about you, but I haven't come across any MTM suits/jackets that are better quality than their OTR equivalents from the likes of Oxxford or Attonlini, just to name a couple.

 

[Master-Classter]

I think there's a major overlooked factor here, and it's the ability of the actual buyer (ie you) to either act as a designer or be allowed to. See a Boss suit looks like Boss, and Zegna does Zegna, so it's one thing to get their MTM, in which case you've still got 99/100 decisions covered by the house cut, it's just that you get a better fit and more fabric choice then whatever they just chose for that season. The problem when you go with some random tailor is that chances are their base pattern is not refined. Basically is has no PERSONALITY, so you'll get something that fits, and you can't argue about that, but somehow there's just no style to it. It's a boring ass design and the buyer forgets all the tiny details that add up to giving a suit any sense of appeal besides technical fit and fabric. But shape, silouette, etc is more then just measurements/fit. Sure they remember fit points (high armhole please, more/less padding) but when it comes to design elements, whatchoogot? ticket pockets? There's more to the style then that. For me I'd rather have a suit with a real personality/style built in, which is in part what the brand name implies, and then do some hunting around to find a good OTR fit, plus after market tailoring to make it fit even better, and worst case have a 8.5/10 fit with a 10/10 style, then get a 10/10 fit but 6/10 style. moving into bespoke just opens up that can of worms even further. To be frank, i think people who've worn OTR their whole lives have seen enough to be able to nitpick a little here and there, but when suddenly they can design any asepct they want, I mean I'm not a tailor, I have no idea on the finer points what to even ask for. So unless you're just walking in with a lot of trust and the tailor asks you a lot of questions you didn't even know you needed to, you'll end up with something that fits but it may still take several iterations before you've got something you really like.

 

[ezboy1000]

Originally Posted by ktrp

I had already said that with OTR before styleforum, now I'm reevaluating, but its tough.

My last few jackets were from Maxwells, a travelling asian shop. Low end pricing - base shirts are 3/135, suits around 500. Honestly, they kick the crap out of anything retail in the price range I've tried on here in Toronto.

I've gone into the (new) BB here in Toronto, I might try some of their stuff on deep sale, and start altering. To be honest though, the whole process is a little scary. The vast majority of jackets I try on fit _horribly_. Relatively few seem anywhere close to fitting on me. I don't really know why. So I could, for what I paid for asian custom work get a 'better made' R2W item over the internet, pray it sort of fits when I get it, then pray that alteration gets it to where I want it. Honestly, it seems much more of a gamble.

I am half tempted to give Maxwells a second go round with post SF knowledge. I'll ask for slightly slimmer shoulders, though not much, higher armholes, slimmer arms, a little more waist suppression. The stuff I have from them is 'too boxy' by SF standards, but people in the wild complement it. It fits well, its just a little traditional/boxy. But I didn't ask for anything different.

I am surprised you found Maxwells of reasonable quality. Two years ago they came through Edmonton and I purchased three shirts, to give it a go. The shirts were what one would expect at that price point in terms of quality, the fit was not MTM, and the shirts had enough room in the body for two of me. I wasn't impressed.

My friend purchased a suit in addition to the three shirts, against my advice. There was another lawyer in our firm who wore Maxwells' suits exclusively and his suits were consistently awful (boxy, huge collar rolls, overly roomy in the body, etc..) To be frank, I thought he wore Moores suits until he told me otherwise.

Long story short, my friend did buy the MTM suit. When it arrived he was crestfallen. It literally looked like a sack on him. The jacket was also about 2.5 inches too short. How do you fix that?

In a former life I worked at Harry Rosen and was involved in the Samuelsohn MTM program, occasionally there would be a few "mistakes" made, but nothing like this. Because my friend was cheap, he tried wearing the suit at work. By the end of the day, the other lawyers nicknamed him "Spongebob" (this was the boxiest suit in the history of mankind, accentuated by the jacket being overly short). I am not using hyperbole here, this is an accurate re-telling of events.

He was told to take the suit to a local tailor for "alterations", which i assured him wouldn't help. After three different trips to the local tailor, he simply hung the suit in his closet for a year, finally giving it away to Goodwill. He wore it once. Maxwells would not refund his money (at least not until they "saw" the suit and tried to alter it and send it back to him again). He was fed up and rightly pointed out that for $500 his time was better spent working than fighting about the suit.

I don't communicate this to undercut the previous poster's expierance, but I want to make sure those considering Maxwells or any other cut rate MTM provider know the danger. You could buy a pretty decent OTR suit for $500 on SF, STP, or at retail discount (much superior in fabric and construction and probably better in fit too).

The older I get, the more I find "you get what you pay for".

 

[B1FF]

I'd go off-the-rack.

Cheap MTM looks like cheap MTM. Cheap fabric looks like cheap fabric. A terrible combination.

Budget MTM usually doesn't fit people nearly as well as they think it does. And when it goes wrong, it can go wrong in strange ways that OTR generally won't... OTR is designed to be altered and is pretty consistent in its construction.

 

[DocHolliday]

I can remember, from a time long ago, when Jantzen was all the rage and more than one person said they were giving up on OTR. Eventually, the wait times, inconsistent cloth quality and risk that an order would be a wash (or not show up at all) largely ended the forum's love affair. I haven't ordered any in a long time, and I was good at the self measuring part.

Sure, the price was right, but when trying to buy on the cheap, it becomes all the more important to be able to see and judge what you're getting.

 

[Cary Grant]

Saturday I helped a friend pick out a suit, shirt etc for his wedding. Damn bugger... puts on a Etro shirt that only needs the sleeves shortened otherwise the fit was

Same with his OTR suit that needs a minor pants alteration and sleeves. He had his choice of 20 that fit OTR and there was ONE jacket that would fit me with substantial changes.

 

[acecow]

Originally Posted by Reevolving

Can you post links to vendors selling the jackets you mentioned, especially the Pringle?
Gladly. Pringle. Everything else.

 

[MBreinin]

No.

And after seeing what Indochino did with your first effort at MTM, I would think your approach would be the opposite.

Mike

 

[Cant kill da Rooster]

This is a great thread!!

I agree with most posters here about online MTM or even online purchases period. There is something to be said for the comfort of knowing the fit when you are buying it, even if I am paying a premium. I have strongly considered MTM but at least one salesman said, (and rightfully so) if you find most OTR suits fit, why bother.

I also agree that after looking for discounted items, the search becomes tiring and I find I am much more now willing to pay full price for things that give me the fit and quality as well as what I am looking for. The price for this "satisfaction" is not referenced enough in this forum except by the senior members. Most people are just looking for the cheapest suit, cheapest pants and cheapest shirts, whether they be online or at Daffy's

 

[jrd617]

Originally Posted by acecow

Gladly. Pringle. Everything else.

You got the one I put up in the PSA thread? Nice.

 

[tesuquegolfer]

I am actually a little depressed having been a SF member for about 6 months now. I thought I had some pretty good fits but after seeing WAYWRNIII and comments, I now feel a little crappy every time I wear my older SCs and suits. As for my newer ones I still feel like I didn't get a good fit even though I looked closer at some details mentioned on SF. I was fit by people that had sold suits for more than 20 years. After a few wearings I keep finding little details that need fixing but finding a tailor that I can conveniently get an opinion/work done is very difficult where I live/work, and he might have me scrap and start over which I can't afford or justify. I just bought a Hickey Freeman suit at 70% off, a $1500 suit with nice fabric for $450. I love the fabric but wonder if it is a bad/marginal fit even after a few alterations where I bought it. I wish I could afford or could justify the cost of having a bespoke suit that fit great. I work where casual dress is standard and I keep thinking about reverting back to my comfortable self and just breaking out the dress clothes for an occasional weeding, funeral, or such. Around here most people don't recognize a "really good" fit, craftsmanship, fabric, or style for that matter!

 

[acecow]

Originally Posted by jrd617

You got the one I put up in the PSA thread? Nice.

Yes, it's lovely. I got a size 50, too. Fits like a glove.

 

[asdf]

Originally Posted by acecow

I'd agree with you on the shirts. I don't even consider buying shirts OTR any more. It's all MTM for me. And yes, I'd rather have inferior materials with better fit and the collars/cuffs that I want. Also, the height of armholes that I require I haven't seen on anything but $400 Isaia Napoli shirts. And at $400 I'd rather get 8 perfectly fitting MTM shirts.

Jackets are different, though. I have found some fantastic deals on suits and jackets. Ermenegildo Zegna, Boglioli, RL and, recently, a $185 jacket from Pringle. All are made from expensive fabrics and fit me very well after necessary, albeit expensive, alterations. None of the MTM jackets I've seen come close to what the respected jacket makers produce. I'm commissioning a suit from a certain MTM maker in China (not Indochino) so maybe that will change my mind. We'll see how it goes.

+1

MTM shirts (cottonwork for me) and medium-end RTW for jackets bought at B&S/Ebay prices.

 

[Beatlegeuse]

Originally Posted by acecow

I'd agree with you on the shirts. I don't even consider buying shirts OTR any more. It's all MTM for me. And yes, I'd rather have inferior materials with better fit and the collars/cuffs that I want. Also, the height of armholes that I require I haven't seen on anything but $400 Isaia Napoli shirts. And at $400 I'd rather get 8 perfectly fitting MTM shirts.

Jackets are different, though. I have found some fantastic deals on suits and jackets. Ermenegildo Zegna, Boglioli, RL and, recently, a $185 jacket from Pringle. All are made from expensive fabrics and fit me very well after necessary, albeit expensive, alterations. None of the MTM jackets I've seen come close to what the respected jacket makers produce. I'm commissioning a suit from a certain MTM maker in China (not Indochino) so maybe that will change my mind. We'll see how it goes.

+2 I have a small neck and long arms (roughly 15.5/36, which is very difficult to find), and a large chest/waist drop, so OTR shirts are a really tough fit for me. But I've found that with suits and jackets, it's usually better to get something OTR that fits pretty well and then get it tailored in certain areas.

I've tried online MTM for jackets and there's just too much that can go wrong, especially with budget MTM. I'm sure if I really had the time and patience to dial in a perfect fit, it might be worth it, but I'm not planning on going through all that.

But with respect to the bold section in your quote, let us know how the other made in China MTM suit turns out!