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Goodyear vs. blake -- visible differences?

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by montecristo#4, Aug 14, 2004.

  1. A Harris

    A Harris Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Why do you consider a thinner insole to be a disadvantage? Or is it just that the quality of the leather is lower. I ask because Vass scrapes the insoles down so that they are quite thin - to me this is superior as it allows the footbed to adjust to the foot much more easily.
     
  2. Lomezz

    Lomezz Senior member

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    Thanks, RIDER. very informative, as always.
     
  3. alchimiste

    alchimiste Senior member

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    Sorry for unearthing this thread, but I guess that's better than starting a new one where everything would have to be repeated.

    Is this still true today? Is Blake still more difficult/expensive to resole?

    Mathieu
     
  4. johnapril

    johnapril Senior member

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    This thread gets down to the nitty-gritty of what I am trying to learn about shoe construction. The big take-away for me is that unless one goes bespoke, goodyear welting--superior method of shoe construction--is unavailable in RTW, outside of Vass and Weston. Say it isn't so. Does anyone have a list of manufacturers that use goodyear welting in their RTW line?
     
  5. alchimiste

    alchimiste Senior member

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    other questions:
    why is a one-piece sole better than glued-on feather?
    why is welted better than Blake?

    Mathieu

    PS: Could A Harris or another avatar of the shoe god write a definitive post on shoe construction: characteristics, advantages, drawbacks, etc. of goodyear welting, glued-on-feather welting, Blake, rapid-Blake, etc.?
    Please
     
  6. Manton

    Manton Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Green, C&J, Church's, Lobb, & Grenson all Goodyear welt at least their top lines of RTW shoes. Green welts them all (except the slippers).
     
  7. johnapril

    johnapril Senior member

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    (johnapril @ April 29 2005,09:29) Does anyone have a list of manufacturers that use goodyear welting in their RTW line?
    Green, C&J, Church's, Lobb, & Grenson all Goodyear welt at least their top lines of RTW shoes. Â Green welts them all (except the slippers).
    Thanks, Manton.
     
  8. norcaltransplant

    norcaltransplant Senior member

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    Hah. I finally caught Manton:
    Green does NOT welt all of their shoes. Sak's offers a few pairs of loafers that are made in Italy--blake constructed for sure. The same goes for JL Paris who frequently has one or two "seasonal" shoes that are subcontracted to an Italian manufacturer. This is a minor detail, just thought I would share.
     
  9. RJman

    RJman Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Dude, the only place I've ever seen those "Made for Edward Green" shoes is in Saks NYC -- I don't even think they sell them in Burlington Arcade. They might be some special thing done at Saks' request.
     
  10. Manton

    Manton Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I did not know that.  Certainly, all the English shoes are welted.  Except, again, the slippers.   And maybe the pumps.

    This I knew, which is why I specified their "top lines."  All the Northampton-made shoes are welted, I think.
     
  11. RJman

    RJman Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Do you still wear RTW shoes Manton?

    (in humble awe)
     
  12. Manton

    Manton Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Sure. I'm neither rich nor irresponsible enough to wear bespoke shoes exclusively.
     
  13. mouseandcat

    mouseandcat Senior member

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    resurrected from the depths of sf

    so do cobblers resole blake stitched shoes?
     
  14. cptjeff

    cptjeff Senior member

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    so do cobblers resole blake stitched shoes?


    Some of them will, some will do it badly. Ask around locally.
     
  15. upnorth

    upnorth Senior member

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    Lomezz - logically speaking, you are correct. Really, the Goodyear machine is just a curved needle stitcher. In the late 1800's, the MacKay stitcher (now called Blake) greatly increased production - but re-soleing was difficult as repair shops were either slow to adapt, or could not afford the new machines. Charles Goodyear invented the curved needle stitcher that allowed the factories still doing 'old-fashioned' work to not only compete production wise, but market the shoes as easily repairable by the shops. The production was still cut and folded walls from the insole, and the shoes continued to be top notch. Thru time, someone came up with the idea of replacing this construction with 'gemming' - a glued on feather. A dedicated machine does this. Also, cheaper, thinner insoles became the norm as you didn't have to cut a wall out of them any longer. This was one of many cuts in quality that has continued to this day in the industry.

    So, specifically speaking, Goodyear Welting has little to do with the insole and more to do with production; however, traditionalists argue that the 'marketers' took advantage of the new technology to cheapen the product in ways a customer might never see, and therefore increase profit margins. This was never the intent. So now, the term "Goodyear Welting" has evolved to include the type of insole used to denote a certain quality and time commitment in the production of a shoe. At least to a small, and shrinking, group of industry types.


    In another thread, I had incorrectly credited DWFII for introducing the term "gemming" to this forum. Looking at the timeline again, Ron, is in fact the first person to have done so. I apologize.
     
  16. rebelrebel

    rebelrebel Member

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    Yes thats correct. Goodyear welted just means that the shoe was held against a machine. If you do a youtube search of Goodyear welt you can see the machines. Mr Goodyear invented the machine to mass produce shoes. The shoes to look out for are the Hand welted shoes
     

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