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Good Natured Advice Thread (improving a business wardrobe)

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Claghorn, Jan 6, 2014.

  1. ridethecliche

    ridethecliche Distinguished Member

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    Hey man, stop trying to throw me into the fire!

    Cox is great though. It's certainly a pretty big difference between the two genre's. I don't really 'get' SWD sometimes, like.... I thought that diniro fit was cool but it didn't make me fall out of my chair in awesomeness. People like different aesthetics, but I can appreciate that one. It's just not how I would choose to look, but I appreciate that he chooses that look.

    Even that took some time to come around to.
     


  2. Coxsackie

    Coxsackie Distinguished Member

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    Braddock's fit doesn't really look like Cary Grant, so I kind of failed there; I quoted that name for the simple reason that CG is indeed a kind of demigod on this side of SF.

    But the diniro fit I've been criticising does indeed remind me of Chaplin as the Little Tramp.

    Let's clear up another few points. Yes, it's a given that I don't want to look like that. What may not be clear is that I have no objection at all to the existence of diniro's fit or his right to post it on SWD. The only reason I raised the subject was because I was flabbergasted at the number of thumbs it got.

    I tried to draw a parallel with modern "classical" music (i.e. music written in the last hundred years for Western orchestral instruments). As a keen amateur muso, I have a specialised view of that field, which enables me to listen to and appreciate works that would sound plain ugly to the untrained ear. I gave some examples. I also find that some of it is rubbish, and that is the crux of my analogy. Given sufficient time and incentive, I could explain to a musically-uninformed person why Henri Dutilleux is a better composer than Pierre Boulez, and I could do it without resorting to vague sweeping generalisations about "emotional impact" and "subjectivity".

    Extending that analogy, I believe one of the reasons Boulez is so overrated as a composer, is that he is such a good conductor/organiser/bandleader. His reputation in one field has leaked over into another. People are in awe of him and assume that everything he turns his hand to will benefit from his Midas touch.

    Pliny made a subtle point earlier - that perhaps everyone was a little more keen than usual to thumb diniro's fit because it incorporated a Junya Watanabe piece, and Junya is really famous and cutting-edge, so everything he does must be great, right?

    Now, if you feel that I'm opening myself up to a criticism of "not seeing the bigger picture" by pointing this out (and hey, I did specifically diss out those pents, didn't I), let me point out to you that I'm doing the exact opposite. I'm looking at the big picture, and I'm seeing a guy wearing a Little Tramp outfit, and I'm still left scratching my head over all those thumbs.
     


  3. in stitches

    in stitches Kung Joo Moderator

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    I can assure you that he did not amass thumbs because he was wearing a Junya piece. That would be akin to stating that an MCer got a ton of thumbs because he was wearing Kiton.

    Tons of people have Junya pieces, and every other high end brand out there. People post fits that are probably well into the 4 digits of clothing value and get little love if the fit is bad. SWD is pretty consistent in that. Good fits (by SWD standards) get thumbs, bad ones dont, Regardless of brands being worn. Not only that, I have seen plenty of posters with fits that get 60 or more thumbs post other fits that get 10 or less. It has to be appreciated as a good fit there to get thumbs.

    Aside, the number is also even more staggering to you because MC fits never get near 100 thumbs, its unheard of, while in SWD, while its on the rare side, it is a feat that has been accomplished many times, and 60-80 thumbs fits appear a number of times a month.

    In any case, the fit does not appeal to you, and probably many others, and on the other hand, it does appeal to a great number of people. So it is. Not really much else to say besides that at this point if you ask me.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2014


  4. EliodA

    EliodA Distinguished Member

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    FTFY. [​IMG]

    Seriously though, from what I see on SWD I do get the impression that it's a lot about brand name dropping. On CM there's a fair amount of posters who don't post brand names, on SWD that never seems to happen. Then again, I only occasionally lurk there, so I may be mistaken.
    I do think that Pliny's point as quoted by Cox above, could be playing quite an important role...
     


  5. cyc wid it

    cyc wid it Stylish Dinosaur

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    It has little if anything to do with the fact that he's wearing Junya. Does the photography/background/poster reputation have something do with it? A little. But to the point, people post 5 figure fits that get no love... whether it's because they are poorly executed or poorly photographed. People get dumped on hard too for end of season reject pile sale kops due to "brand name".
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2014


  6. kulata

    kulata Distinguished Member

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    Ok music break from the CM vs SWD talk :D
     


  7. Claghorn

    Claghorn Stylish Dinosaur Dubiously Honored

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    I know certain brands get thumbs. B&Tailor, for example, ensures a few extra thumbs due to its visibility.

    SWD does seem to be more brand oriented, but I think that's because brands are less interchangeable in SWD than in CM.
     


  8. ridethecliche

    ridethecliche Distinguished Member

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    Some things are pretty easily recognizable in the SWD world so brands serve more as confirmation than anything else.

    Look at that fit from a CM perspective. The pants are pretty damn loud and have a lot going on, kind of like one of holdfast's ties. In order to make the rest of the fit, the rest has to be interesting, but loud in a totally different way i.e. texture, some detail, but it can't be overly busy because it just turns everything into a clusterfuck then.

    So if you pick a loud tie, the rest of the outfit shouldn't compete with it. Nothing is competing with those pants. Everything there serves to just bring them out a bit.

    There are many parallels, and there's certainly some overlap in thought process.
     


  9. in stitches

    in stitches Kung Joo Moderator

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    As a person who reads both threads daily, I can say with quite a bit of confidence, that both sides are equally brand aware, and brands carry about the same weight on both sides.

    Anyone who says that Attolini or bespoke Steed doesnt tickle a few balls in MC the same way Damir or Yohji might on SWD, is fooling themselves. Sure, there people on both sides that really dont care about brands at all, but on the whole, I think the brand interest is even steven.
     


  10. ridethecliche

    ridethecliche Distinguished Member

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    I spend way more time in CM and I could tell that was a Junya piece and I can identify something that definitely looks like yohji, but I have no idea what BNT look like or how it's different from ring or steed.

    I can sometimes identify shoes, but that's usually because I see people post what they just bought in other threads and I'm clueless when it comes to ties.
     


  11. Coxsackie

    Coxsackie Distinguished Member

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    OK, I'll leave it alone now. Thanks for all the feedback, and hopefully no hard feelings.

    [​IMG]
     


  12. Coxsackie

    Coxsackie Distinguished Member

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    One of the best songs in the history of the universe. Not a good choice for karaoke though.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2014


  13. in stitches

    in stitches Kung Joo Moderator

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    No hurt feelings here, it was a great discussion in my book.
     


  14. mimo

    mimo Pernicious Enabler

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    Truth. The quality and setting of the photography, even the physical appearance of the wearer, the reputation and form or the poster, and consciously or otherwise, the names dropped, are all massive factors in how many "thumbs" a post gets in CM. I spend no time at all in SWD as I'm just not interested, and yes I find that particular look cited pretentious to the point of comedy. But not nearly as comical as it would look if I were wearing it, as a fat 43 year old. I have no doubt either that to younger SWD aficionados, the sight of me in a three piece suit, perhaps even with spectator shoes, and always with a pocket square, is equally preposterous.

    Live and let live. And at the end of the day, we all need to keep a little perspective on what SF loves compared to the real world, whichever side of the fence we prefer: Braddock's pic above is a smash hit here, but in real life I think that to the average observer (and to me) his shoulders are too tight, his trousers short and narrow and looking even more so when he's moving, and he's making just as big a statement of fashion as the apple-faced dude. But he's also standing next to a chunk of the Berlin wall, and making a living advertisement for the ties he's selling. So good luck to him.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2014


  15. roquesoon

    roquesoon Senior Member

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    @Coxsackie

    when you say diniro looks like a gnome, and then say he looks like Charlie Chaplin, it makes me think you are reacting strongly, maybe subconsciously, to his pose, with the arms behind the back and the wide angle of the feet. Not sure how that fits into this discussion, and maybe I'm late to this party, but thought I'd point it out at least.


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]



    Back to the lurk.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2014


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