Good Natured Advice Thread (improving a business wardrobe)

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Claghorn, Jan 6, 2014.

  1. Isolation

    Isolation Senior member

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    Thanks guys, good ideas.

    I picked the hacking pocket thinking the horizontal line would make her seem shorter, and thought a slight hack would break it up a little, but I think you're right. FWIW next jacket might be a patch pocket so that might not be too important anyway.
     


  2. Coxsackie

    Coxsackie Senior member

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    Iso, I note that you have taken considerable care here with your pronouns to keep them non-gender-specific.

    If your partner is indeed female, then her basic bodily habitus will dictate the overall silhouette more than the garment.

    If your partner is male (or, to be completely inclusive and assumption-free here, let's just say "not female") and is seeking a cut which doesn't excessively feminise their shape, then I would say there's too much waist suppression in this jacket.

    I'd also suggest a shirt and tie. At least, let's see some photos with shirt and tie - the garments suits are "traditionally" matched with.
     


  3. kulata

    kulata Senior member

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    @Isolation if your partner doesn't want a feminine look then the jacket needs to be longer (short jackets draws attention to the hips) and waist suppression should be moderate
     


  4. Isolation

    Isolation Senior member

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    It's confusing to explain in most cases but you guys tend to be a bit more LGBT(Q) friendly so basically they are dfab ("born female" but more accurately designated female at birth) go by "they" pronouns and identify as neither male/female at present, but are considering transitioning or taking hormones due to dysphoria, and for them being able to not appear traditionally female is a big deal, but their size/body type makes it difficult, which is why I've been so keen to get stuff made at affordable prices.

    If anything this is a showcase about how clothes can be important for people, it gives confidence to many, but or some it's even more significant than most understand. In some cases, and I hope you people are more understanding wrt that than a lot of people on the internet are, it's literally triggering and can cause actual panic attacks for some people in some cases to be read as female (ie. dysphoria). How bad it is depends on the scenario, and depends on the context, ie. some people are okay with it most times, but occasionally it gets really bad. It's hard to imagine for people who don't experience it, and that's partially why it feels awkward to talk about it because you end up with some pretty ignorant remarks sometimes, and it's kind of offensive to be told that something one is dealing with is "not real" or made up, or exaggerated, etc. Like I said you guys seem pretty cool with that kind of stuff so I don't mind.

    I mean this isn't directly related to advice and is mostly personal background, but if you recall there were some queer/women's members (kippiers? I think?) a while back with a site, and that's basically the kind of thing/market they are trying to explore.

    But anyway, they have somewhat larger hips and longer legs and somewhat slighter chest/torso, so it's important to find a way that doesn't suppress the waist too much without making it look really baggy and sloppy. I think it can be done though, and in my limited understanding, the larger shoulders are important because if the hips are wider than the shoulders there's no real way of making it not obvious or appear male/masucline.

    I think sure waist suppression can look feminine but I think not necessarily, as you look at say Steed cuts there's a fair amount of suppression but it's quite a masculine silhouette. From what I can see the significance is when the waist accentuates the shoulders and create a strong V as opposed to making the hips look large. Like here I feel like it looks pretty good:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Even though there is a noticeable waist it does not look extremely feminine. This one is by Dream, and I think they understood better what we wanted.

    And yeah we actually just didn't have a shirt on us because our order was not finished at that time for the fitting, we usually wear shirt and tie with suits when possible.

    Thanks for the comments so far, very helpful.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2014


  5. Coxsackie

    Coxsackie Senior member

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    Yes, there was a poster back here a while back who was either DFAB or just a girl who enjoyed cross-dressing, this was not made clear.

    The poster was establishing a business to design and sell that type of clothing. Do a search on WAYWRN and see if you can dig it up. There were links I think.

    The world is a big place full of weird and wonderful people, and there should be room for everybody. I, for instance, really like classical music - exposure to crappy production line dance-pop tends to make me extremely anxious. But does anyone understand? No, they just keep trying to force K-Pop and American Idol runner-ups on me. "You will change", they sneer. Bah.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2014


  6. The Noodles

    The Noodles Skid Fu

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    "Dont you dare talk about my kpop oppas like that!"

    Actually, most Koreans think kpop is total garbage and are longing for the days when music will again be based on talent, not on looks. Kpop effed up a generation of good musicians.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2014


  7. Isolation

    Isolation Senior member

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    There will be mainstream entertainment and counter culture, high art and low art in any situation. I do think it's not a necessary dichotomy, you don't have to hate mainstream stuff to also like classical music, although there's probably more trite in mainstream stuff purely because of the business model and consumerist nature of it, but pop doesn't have to be bad.

    It's the nature of classical music and timeless pieces though that they will not truly die, so it's not really worrying.
     


  8. in stitches

    in stitches Kung Joo Moderator

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    I thought that fist jacker had a fem look to it. Could be the build of the wearer or the jacket, idrk.
     


  9. mktitsworth

    mktitsworth Senior member

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    I was told at one point by my undergrad DE prof that French mathematicians in the 18th and 19th centuries developing the field of differential equations had a pithy phrase that basically amounted to "When you get stuck, make whatever assumptions you need to move forward."
     




  10. Stencil

    Stencil Senior member

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    @Isolation , it's wonderful that your partner has you to help them through this process of wardrobe building. I'm in more or less the same position: my partner of many years is dfab, uses "they" pronouns, and hasn't worn women's clothing in years. As you undoubtedly know, for someone female bodied to find well-fitting men's clothes, especially tailored men's clothes, is an extreme challenge. But it's even more challenging to go through life wearing clothes that force you to look like someone you're not. So kudos to the both of you for going in on bespoke. I'd like to do the same someday with my partner, but their need for clothing like that is more or less null at the moment. I would like to take some careful measurements and get them some mtm shirts made for the holidays, though. Finding small-sized welted shoes is the next obstacle!

    Anyway, on the more technical side of things, I think your feelings about the fit of your partner's clothes are more or less on the right track. I think waist suppression is fine provided the rest of the silhouette works. Steed is a good example here: Edwin's cut does indeed make use of a lot of waist suppression, but as you note: 1) the shoulder's are typically very slightly structured and somewhat extended, 2) the chest is swelled, the lapels broad (damn near 4" inches) and there may or may not be a little drape (there's definitely some in the blades), and finally 3) the skirt is very close to the hips. With that in mind, points 1 and 3 will be important for your partner, I think. Slightly extended shoulders will not only create a masculine line, but help de-emphasize the width of your partner's hips. Similarly, trousers that have a little room in the thighs (i.e. single pleats) when paired with a close fitting jacket skirt will help create a continuous line from waist to thighs that will, again, de-emphasize the hips. Extended shoulders and a tight skirt will look boxy without a suppressed waist, and will make your partner look like they're swimming in the jacket.

    So, if that's the sort of cut you're gong for, I think the jacket above is on the right track (though a picture from further out would indeed lend itself to better evaluation). I'm not sure I agree that the length is too short. It looks alright to me. I think your partner will look very sharp when it's finished.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2014


  11. Mr. Six

    Mr. Six Senior member

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    Thanks for the comments so far, very helpful.


    I applaud you for helping your partner with this endeavor. Gender definition issues are difficult, and I know many people who have found clothing to be among the things that are hardest about making their exterior match their vision of themselves. I admit that I haven't read all of your posts closely, so maybe you've touched on this, but I think that it would help those who want to offer advice if you could describe the result your partner wants to achieve--for example, what kind of a silhouette they'd like, how traditionally masculine/feminine, how fashionable or traditional, etc. Given the nature of the forum, advice here generally (and totally appropriately) pushes in the direction of traditional tailored men's clothing. If your partner wants something different, folks could probably be more helpful knowing what the goal is.
     


  12. ridethecliche

    ridethecliche Senior member

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    Fuck, this thread became awesomer. You lot are awesome.
     


  13. Claghorn

    Claghorn Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I :nodding:
     


  14. Isolation

    Isolation Senior member

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    Thanks guys. Good to hear we're not alone. Hopefully we'll post more photos and find something that works well. They have been unsure about posting fits or clothes in the past because of some of the misogynistic and problematic things they've read elsewhere in the forums but perhaps they can be persuaded. :) Can't type much right now but I wanted to focus on the mention of pleats. I've long been told since the start that pleats are not stylish so I hadn't even considered it. Perhaps it is something that works well in this situation, but I know very little about them beyond what they are (in terms on how they affect a look on when they are appropriate). Can anyone share some knowledge on them? I'll look them up but they don't seem very popular anymore.
     


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