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Good Natured Advice Thread (improving a business wardrobe)

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Claghorn, Jan 6, 2014.

  1. jungleroller

    jungleroller Senior member

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    Who do you use for your MTM?
     
  2. Claghorn

    Claghorn Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    yo momma




    (a Korean tailor called 코베리 that contracts to the same factory that a lot of mid-tier mtm firms do)
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2014
  3. in stitches

    in stitches Senior member Moderator

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    i have no doubt that that is true. but you are still paying for the BnT brand when you shop there. which makes me happy.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2014
  4. Claghorn

    Claghorn Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Oh. That's absolutely true. It was one of the reasons that it was weird deciding not to get my next jacket there (it wasn't about not being able to afford it. It was about not thinking it was worth it). It's tough to accept that a brand preference was causing you to make economically irrational decisions (as in, while the B&T name was worth the extra money [(Pb&t - Pmtm) - WTPquality + WTPstyle = WTPbrand]* , I didn't want me to feel as if it worth it because, on a purely intellectual level, I thought that it wasn't worth it). And tougher still to overcome that preference. So yeah. Weird feeling.

    *I like the style of the MTM a bit more, so that takes away a bit from the premium. I figure I'm paying for the increased in quality, the brand, and taking a hit on the style
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2014
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  5. Murlsquirl

    Murlsquirl Senior member Moderator

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    Clags, how about you proxy me a MTM with your order and that will make you feel even better about decision.
     
  6. in stitches

    in stitches Senior member Moderator

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    clags, what does WTP stand for there?
     
  7. gdl203

    gdl203 Senior member Affiliate Vendor Dubiously Honored

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    Willingness to Pay
     
  8. in stitches

    in stitches Senior member Moderator

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    oh, for me, it goes like this: if i like it and i can afford it (im very liberal with that second part), i go for it. greg knows all about this.
     
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  9. Rudals

    Rudals Senior member

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    Close/scary encounter from yesterday.
    My wife has some fashion app on her phone that is like SF, except that it mainly caters to women.
    But yesterday, my wife was complaining about all the pictures of suits (she already hates suits cus of my addiction to SF).
    So I looked at her phone to see what kind of pix she was complaining about and low and behold they were pix from Pitti Uomo! [​IMG]
    I
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. Monkeyface

    Monkeyface Senior member

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    I think Claghorn's query was more of the nature of how much more are you willing to pay for a marginal increase in quality. The same is often debated in shoe threads: are you willing to pay twice the price of Carmina for Edward Green, even though the quality of EG is only 1.1x as good? Seeing as Claghorn prefers the MTM style, he'd rather have 3 MTM jackets than 1 B&T jacket that is only slightly better quality and fit wise and has a worse style. Makes sense to me.

    Everyone encounters these questions at some point int time. This was a recent question I had: Would I rather have 2-3 suitsupply suits that fit pretty well but have some drawbacks style and construction wise, or 1 Sartoria Partenopea that fits perfectly, is much better constructed and more stylish? That was of course an easy one, but I can imagine that if you move up in price, the difficulty of answering this question will also go up.

    For example, would you rather have 3 Formosa's or 1 brand X that is slightly better in quality and fit?
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2014
  11. in stitches

    in stitches Senior member Moderator

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    I understand clags' dilemma. What I am saying is I don't really have that issue.

    If I like A more than B, as long as I can afford A, I don't really factor in is that price bump commensurate to how much more I like it better than B. Because I know I will be most happy buying what I like the most. That is what I have found personally.

    I always endeavor to get what it is that I like most. If I can't afford A, however, as long as I do like B, I will get it, if it is something I need/want.
     
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  12. Monkeyface

    Monkeyface Senior member

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    That's very interesting! I suppose we all maximise our utility in different ways.
     
  13. unbelragazzo

    unbelragazzo Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I've never understood these kinds of statements. "Quality", if it even means anything, is not a number. When you divide one not-number by another not-number, you again get a not-number. So I don't know what this 1.1x could possibly mean.
     
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  14. in stitches

    in stitches Senior member Moderator

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    If you were more of a nerd, you would see, like Clags, that everything has a number/value to it.

    For me, not so much.

    ---

    MF - horses for courses. its what makes things interesting.
     
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  15. in stitches

    in stitches Senior member Moderator

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    What I think he means though, is, lets say Carminas cost $500, and lets say that is a fair price, and make that the baseline.

    Now, are EGs that much more luxurious/constructed that much better, that you could say it justifies spending $1200. Are they quantifiably $700 "better"?

    I think its a fair question if that is your perspective.

    But my perspective is, do I like the EGs (really GGs for me) better at all? Do they speak to my heart? If so, whatever the bump is, if I can afford it, it will usually be "worth" it.
     
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  16. sugarbutch

    sugarbutch Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    As long as there's a price associated with the choices, it's hard not to try to quantify the differences. If a pair of shoes costs 2x a pair you consider to have acceptable quality/desirability, what are you getting for your extra money? In a sense, if you don't intuitively think the differences make it 2x the quality/desirability, then you'll decide it's not worth it, right?
     
  17. unbelragazzo

    unbelragazzo Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    You can think about whether the shoes are worth that much more to you, sure. But this has nothing to do with some objectively measured "quality". Is a $100 bill 2 times the "quality" of a $50 bill?

    It's not a nerd vs not nerd thing. I think the attempt to quantify stuff like this is counter productive because it leads people to focus on the quantifiable aspects of a good, and imagine that "quality" is linear in those aspects.
     
  18. Monkeyface

    Monkeyface Senior member

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    Economists/statisticians put numbers on everything, so I'm sure you could put a number on quality as well. You could have people score the quality of shoes in the same way the quality of cars is determined. Just score the several parts of the shoe, such as leather, stitching, last, durability, nr. of issues in a year, etc. Weigh those parts and come up with an overall 'quality' score. Compare that quality with the price and you can make a price/quality ratio. Some parts can be more objectively determined than others. Everyone can see sloppy stitching, but some lasts will appeal more to some than to others.

    Of course the 1.1 number is entirely fictional, but it was merely an example. As Stitchy explained, it took Carmina as a baseline of 1.

    For example, I have shoes that cost €160, €260 and €340. I can compare the initial quality: how does the stitching look, how does the last look, how does the leather feel, etc. Then, after a year of wearing all three shoes approximately equally much, I can compare the long term quality. For example, the soles of the 160 shoe split twice, and I had to stop by the cobbler several times. The leather looks very wrinkled as well, and doesn't feel as nice the other shoes.

    So, I can score the shoe on all of those things, add the costs of the cobbler to the purchasing price, and come up with a price quality ratio. The shoe that has the best price/quality ratio after a year is the shoe that I will be purchasing more often. It's only a sample of one for each brand, but you could also take expert reviews from industry insiders, or SF reviews from trusted people into account when making a buying decision. I think it's a good way of maximising your utility within a certain budget. As it is now, I'd rather have 1 Carmina than 2 Meermin shoes.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2014
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  19. in stitches

    in stitches Senior member Moderator

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    No, not really, because that is only if the cheaper option is a starting point, or even a factor. See, the way I look at it is like this:

    Lets say GG shoes cost 1300, or a certain SC costs 1500. The question is, Do like it? Do I love it? Do I yearn for it? Do I think it is luxurious and well made? Does the brand mean something to me? If yes, then that item is worth that price for me. And if it is worth that price, then the fact that something else is comparable to it, but cheaper, does not really matter, because what I want is worth the price being asked. At that point, its just a matter of can I afford it or not?

    And if I cant, what can I do to make it so I can afford it? If there is no way, only then do I begin to consider alternate, and perhaps less expensive, options.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2014
  20. unbelragazzo

    unbelragazzo Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I am an economist, and I'm telling you, few of our kind would think of doing such a thing and calling it "quality".
     
    1 person likes this.

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