Good Natured Advice Thread (improving a business wardrobe)

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Claghorn, Jan 6, 2014.

  1. TweedyProf

    TweedyProf Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I think for gray on top, blue on bottom might work well. Mostly, I've been contemplating one gray herringbone. Something brown on tan seems plausible, but some version of blue seems in principle possible. Of course depends on what sort of blue.

    There's a monotony of mid gray that seems worth breaking in the course of a weeks fits.

    JRD thanks for the link. Will check it out. I started Mantons book. Was fun though I didn't finish it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2014


  2. TweedyProf

    TweedyProf Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I just perused JRDs thread which granted I read quickly. My question is about color combinations. I am moved by avoiding if possible navy worsteds avoiding the dreaded orphan suit component look.

    But set that aside. There are several pics showing navy odd trousers done very well. The armoury pics are illustrative and I don't think the chosen combos are earth shattering. Alan See wearing tan gun club over navy and Jake wearing a gray checked over navy. These are not advanced combos and the look good (it helps that the clothes are cut so well and the jackets nice). Neither would look better in gray. Brown might work but I don't see that as better than blue.

    I shudder at the workman association argument. Yikes.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2014


  3. TweedyProf

    TweedyProf Senior member Dubiously Honored

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  4. jungleroller

    jungleroller Senior member

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    Thanks. I didn't get a full shot for todays. I was running around too much today. I was thinking overall it would work with a Grey/Charcoal SC but I don't have an orphan one so I nabbed the speck one even though it's a suit jacket just to see how it worked with the pants. Are Grey/Charcoal SC's not a common thing?



    I got two pairs about a month ago. They were both at the tailors and I was out all last week on the road for work so just now getting a chance to wear them. These are the other ones I got. Pardon the sheen sox.

    [​IMG]
     


  5. in stitches

    in stitches Kung Joo Moderator

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    i think the armoury guys are long past caring about SF rules.

    as i recall it from manton, a lot of it has more to do with people only having one suit or something and then people thinking your pants were orphaned suit pants and other stuff like that. i do not recall anyone worth a shit asserting that they never look good. and if they do, they are wrong. its one thing to follow certain theories on formality or perception, but to say that objectively it is never pleasing to the eye is plain stupid to me.


    thanks! tho i do not recall what i said there lol. :embar:
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2014


  6. Mr. Six

    Mr. Six Senior member

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    @TM79 PM me if you want Steed's full price list for MTM.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2014


  7. sugarbutch

    sugarbutch Bearded Prick Dubiously Honored

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    What is this jrd thread everyone's referencing? I thought we agreed that sugarbutch would get the heads-up when the conversation has moved. This is not cool, bros.
     


  8. in stitches

    in stitches Kung Joo Moderator

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    ur welcum
     


  9. archibaldleach

    archibaldleach Senior member

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    From what I recall, there seems to be no issue with navy odd trousers worn without a jacket. Many do prefer medium grey when it comes to odd trousers, jacket or no, but total disdain for navy odd trousers in any context has got to be a minority position among posters on here. I wear navy odd trousers in linen during the summer. Grey to me is just a better F/W color so I don't wear navy odd trousers outside of summer, but I am sure they can work in some contexts.

    Manton has said, "I don't understand the eye that does not rebel at seeing navy trousers with a tailored jacket," which is pretty strong language IMO and I've seen some other language on how navy odd trousers do not belong with tailored jackets from other pretty well respected voices on here. From some of his other posts and looking at what others have said on the subject, a lot of it seems to relate to historical norms (grey was used far more than navy for odd trousers), it being easier for a darker jacket and lighter trouser combination to look good than the reverse (argument also used against charcoal odd trousers) and the fact that medium grey just works with a lot of different things. I suspect the disapproval of navy odd trousers with tailored jackets is an aesthetic principal that applies in a majority of cases combined with a historical norm of things just being done a certain way.

    I can't imagine any odd jacket I own looking better with navy odd trousers than either medium or light grey (may not be the case for everyone but I just don't see how they'd work better with any of my odd jackets) and find tan / cream to give me the added diversity I desire if I do not wish to wear grey (though RAF blue flannel odd trousers do tempt me quite a bit). I think most would agree that it is harder to make navy odd trousers work with most tailored jacket than light or medium grey (i.e. thus not a staple and not for beginners).
     


  10. archibaldleach

    archibaldleach Senior member

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  11. TweedyProf

    TweedyProf Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I should point out the context of my raising this question which was in Claghorn's 20 thumbs thread (Sugarbutch, that's an invite to you).

    Ed Morel raised a question about two of Stitch's fits. I thought that it might be worth trying some form of blue, as an intellectual exercise. Then Doc and Bourbon happened to be on this thread when I made a note about Steed so thought I would have them repeat any of their arguments for or against, were they so inclined...

    I agree, mid gray is more versatile than any shade of blue for trousers. The should not be a staple for trousers with odd jackets. That wasn't the question.

    The question is: when does a navy odd trouser work well and why? I'm sorry, the pictorial evidence here suggests that it can (and ArchibaldLeach points out their usefulness for gray jackets).

    See GDL's jacket here (post 60): http://www.styleforum.net/t/207164/navy-vs-charcoal-trousers/45#post_3765995

    Armoury pics here: http://www.styleforum.net/t/349873/the-dreaded-odd-navy-pants-revisited/30#post_6386623

    Alan See's jacket has been paired well by him with olive trousers too. I do not think it obvious that a mid gray would be better there and indeed, I think worse. Charcoal would have been fine: that sort of light jacket seems to work well with the two odd trousers many people despise.

    MonkeyFace also has a pic

    So the question is not about versatility but about why it works when it works (and I submit that the links give you an existence proof that it works). I could raise the original question again: might it have worked with Stitch's fit? [That said, I was trying to stir things up there, but perhaps that's not the purpose of Claghorn's thread]. Anyway, don't mean us to legislate the versatility point.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2014


  12. Academic2

    Academic2 Senior member

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    For those who don't rule out light jacket/dark pants combos, may I ask what you think the options are? I've got a pair of the following Yount trousers and would love suggestions for jackets from those who think such a thing is possible:

    http://www.howardyount.com/products/donegal-tweed-pants-blue-1

    Someone in the WAYWRN: MC Casual Style thread wore them with a grey POW jacket, and it looked good to me. Other suggestions? Medium grey flannel? Herringbone tweed? Thanks in advance.

    Cheers,

    Ac
     


  13. TweedyProf

    TweedyProf Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Monkey face has a similar POW with navy odd trousers look (without tie) in one of the links above. I think a grey herringbone would look nice, would opt for that over the grey flannel. Pushing the textures and patterns more in the first two jacket options. My 2 cents.
     


  14. sugarbutch

    sugarbutch Bearded Prick Dubiously Honored

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    Large-scale gray/black POW (or if you're into that sort of thing, gray/blue); medium-to-large white/black herringbone. I would stay away another donegal-ish fabric up top. Well, unless you're AAS, in which case you might go with a different donegal for pants, jacket, tie, overcoat...
     


  15. mktitsworth

    mktitsworth Senior member

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    Plenty of good gun clubs that could go with that. Also jackets with off color checks - green with orange or an orange/brown with red (there's a specific LL cloth that comes to mind). Things that work together to inspire an idea of water. Those pants are light enough that I think a nice deep burgundy cashmere would be smashing and could serve as being darker while the tonal contrast between them serves to prevent them from conflicting.

    Bold pants like that require a certain acknowledgement - some cheek - and so require a bit of dash to accompany them. You can't wear them and try to subdue them with somber trappings around. That's like taking the loud mouth out to the game and then trying to have all the boys keep him quiet. No! By choosing things that serve to balance it with a similar exuberance, it acknowledges the anachronism of the blue trousers while scoffing and being awesome. Provided that it were suitable to the weather and the fabric is light enough, a lighter toned summer jacket could be boss, straddling and embracing the edge of the seasons.

    Much of the advice I see bandied about in this thread is about - for lack of a better way to put it - the construction of schema for identifying clothing choices. Learning the rules. Flusser, manton, and foo.gif type things. This is a good thing to do and I generally say is about learning the language you're trying to speak. As @Holdfast will tell you, clothing is costume, and playing with it in some way (eventually) boils down to things you want to communicate. Given this linguistic analogy, the appropriate term to use instead of "schema" is "grammar." The grammar for a language is - essentially - the rules for how to put sentences together.

    I'm not a linguist, but there are a few good ways to incorporate the question about these blue gray donegal tweed pants. Grammar can tell you how to construct a proper sentence, but it doesn't teach you how to form a sentence with that same content in the way a natural speaker would. This requires a clearer understanding of (among other things) the semantics for the language - the associated meanings of things. In this case, blue gray pants are an... eccentricity within the language of menswear. They can be thought of as an idiom, something not everyone would say, not everyone will agree with, and not everyone will understand. Because of this though, provided that things are phrased in a pleasing way, you can get away with it and the choice becomes a personal stylistic one.

    I personally would want to wear those pants with a coral red linen jacket, white OCBD, and brown suede loafers. Then again it was in the 70s here last week and probably will be again next week. I'm also not known for my adherence to forum dogma. I'd probably have done it this week though, because it's supposed to be grey and overcast through Friday and I enjoy flipping the bird to dreary gloom.
     


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