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Good Natured Advice Thread (improving a business wardrobe)

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Claghorn, Jan 6, 2014.

  1. UrbanComposition

    UrbanComposition Senior member

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    Well done.
     
  2. sprout2

    sprout2 Senior member

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    You guys could be cousins
     
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  3. Count de Monet

    Count de Monet Senior member

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    I'll settle for sober. My kids will confirm I'm "never, ever cool" anyway. But has Manton's edict banning burgundy with white shirts been repealed? I might have missed the memo.
     
  4. Isolation

    Isolation Senior member

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    I like stripes as chalk stripes on flannel exclusively maybe I just have lots of tacky connotations built up with cheap worsted stripe suits.
     
  5. VirgilVerne

    VirgilVerne Senior member

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    Well a double breasted suit is as formal as you can be without a tux...but yeah if it's proper business attire (not in a business casual environment) you should be fine, matching suit trousers I presume? I actually think the tie's fine, since you're already going pinstripe DB I find it mismatching, kinda weird if you go for something too muted, perhaps swap for a slightly toned down fabric? this seems too shiny to me
     
  6. Isolation

    Isolation Senior member

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    I think a three piece is more formal than a db.

    The tie doesn't have to be "muted" necessary, just have to have a more congruent vibe, and if you mix lavender it's a bit too dandyish, and not as business, whereas a dark burgundy or even midnight tie matches the more aggressive tone, and serious (not necessarily "sombre") tone.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2016
  7. VirgilVerne

    VirgilVerne Senior member

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    Interesting, my impression was that a three piece suit is used to achieve the effect of a db without the risk - for example a short man

    Agree with the tie's colour, I do feel like there needs to be some kind of pattern there (not stripe) though - not too showy but not plain
     
  8. Isolation

    Isolation Senior member

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    Originally all suits are 3 piece, including DBs, but then the vest was removed from DBs (rations during war, good example is if you watch Jeeves and Wooster, which is set pre war, their DBs have vests as well), and DBs are worn as suits that don't need vests. Similarly, DB tuxes are less formal than SB (and therefore 3 piece) Tuxes. It stands to reason then, I think, that SB 3 pieces are more formal, as essentially DBs became "suits that don't need a vest". Of course these things change, and DBs are seen as more dandified, and I think odd waistcoats are also, but a matching 3 piece I think is the most formal contemporary incarnation of the lounge suit.

    I also don't think DBs are bad for a short person.

    I like a textured solid, a grenadine, or something subtle, but I am sure a neat is good too. I think a stripe would be a bit too much of a visual statement (clash) against bold stripes on the suit.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2016
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  9. merick

    merick Well-Known Member

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    Black captoe oxfords.

    So the suit is on the edge of acceptable business attire, but if I choose to wear it I should tone it down with a white shirt and a neat tie.

    Time to buy a solid (grenadine ? ) burgundy tie. Any suggestions?


    Edit: Example of me wearing the suit with a brown grenadine tie:

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2016
  10. VirgilVerne

    VirgilVerne Senior member

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    Agree with the tie, as long as it has some texture it should be good.

    Interesting history of DB, from what I've heard DB lost its place in the early 20th century due to the Great wars since the extra fabric called for rationing, so to achieve the more buttoned up look many men took up the SB + vest option. But yeah I guess that three piece suit is probably more formal than DB now as it's viewed as being a bit more fashionable and contemporary retro.

    The reason why I tend to not favour DB on short men is because I'm quite short personally ( barely 5'7) and am pretty slim (36' chest 28' waist) and frankly does not look good in it - might go bespoke for one when I get the chance though, I usually use MTM.
     
  11. VirgilVerne

    VirgilVerne Senior member

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    Yeah, definitely swap the shirt out for plain white. looks pretty busy at the moment. Good choice on the shoes though
     
  12. Isolation

    Isolation Senior member

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    No, you're not reading what I said, you've got it the other way around. My comments referred to historical views, not contemporary ones. DBs did become rarer (not early 20th century, but later, or in fact, quite recently), but is currently gaining a resurgence, and as such, it's hard to place it for "right now" so I sought only to tell you how it was traditionally perceived.

    A 3 pc SB takes more cloth than a 2pc DB by far. In fact a DB doesn't take that much more cloth than an SB at all, and if you go to a tailor's they will generally ask for the same amount of cloth. What you read is about waitcoats being paired with DB, not the DB itself, as the DB was still worn quite often after the war, and only more recently became considered "old fashioned".

    If you think about it, if the DB became defunct around the time of the war, then people these days (or 5 years ago, in any case) wouldn't have an "old fashioned" connotation to it, because the DB would have only been worn before these people were alive, or only when they were very young. Rather, it's associated with people who were began wearing suits in the 50s or 60s, who in the 2000s, are now in their 70s or 80s.

    I definitely do not think small and/or thin people look bad in DB. Quite a few notable short people have gone for DB. I suggest checking out the DB thread in this forum: http://www.styleforum.net/t/67010/double-breasted-style/0_100

    I think a well proportioned db suit does very well to enhance a person's smaller stature, as it pairs naturally well with wide peak lapels. It obviously can't make a person actually taller or bigger, but it gives a person bigger presence.

    The reason DBs look bad on smaller people is because generally speaking it's harder for smaller people to get well fitted clothes, and DBs being rarer, it's even harder to find well fitting DB suits, and then the fact that DBs draw more attention to the wearer means that it draws more attention to the ill fitting clothes on a small person. A well fitted DB do not have these problems I think. DB suits often allow for a slightly shorter jacket length (as it has no open quarters and will be worn closed), which I think makes a person look taller. Again the lapels draw attention to the chest and shoulders and make it look stronger. If anything, I rather think a DB is more suited for a smaller person than a larger one.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2016
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  13. VirgilVerne

    VirgilVerne Senior member

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    I do consider 'resurgence' as similar to 'fashionable' like I said, disregarding its connotation of 'old fashioned' due to DB's instability in recent years, but you're quite right regarding the DB's time of rarity considering the association with elders.
    Which is why I said I may get one Bespoke, since MTM can't fit me perfectly.
     
  14. Kid Nickels

    Kid Nickels Senior member

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    Fat dudes in DB's… now there's classically fashionable for you.
     
  15. Isolation

    Isolation Senior member

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    I think SB, because of its ubiquitousness, will draw less attention to yourself, but I'm not convinced either way whether DBs or SBs are inherently more or less flattering on different body shapes, or require more or less of a good fit. I think whenever you stand out with what you wear, flaws will show through more.

    But certainly, yes, if you want to get a DB, I'd suggest going bespoke or an MTM that works well. Not all MTM are created equal. I get my suits from HK, which is not TOO far from Australia I suppose, and my partner has a difficult body to tailor for as well (they are quite small/short) and have gotten DBs that fit them quite well.
     
  16. Coxsackie

    Coxsackie Senior member

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    We are all overlooking one thing, which is that DB suits were actually ubiquitous in the early 90s. In fact nobody wore SBs for a few years around that time. Then SBs suddenly came back (and were all hard-3, which was weird).

    My point being: DB suits are not old-fashioned, or retro, or steam-punk, or anything like that. They are just another iteration of the men's lounge suit, the enthusiasm for which waxes and wanes with the seasons.

    A couple of years ago, DB suits and especially DB odd jackets came roaring back - especially at Pitti, where they were paired with tangerine slim-fit chinos, sockless double monks, and humungous beards. Was this a good thing or a bad thing? Your mileage may vary. Certainly it was an hilarious thing.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2016
  17. VirgilVerne

    VirgilVerne Senior member

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    Yeah I believe the overall order was DB, 3 button SB, followed by 2 button SB. You can't really give DB a solid defining tag. I'm not familiar with Pitti fashion but I imagine it looked something like a combination of these.[​IMG] [​IMG]

    I used to live in Hong Kong so I've always been a bit suspicious at the high-end suiting qualities, are the pricing decent? I'm relatively new to the bespoke scene and have primarily been using MTMs like Dragon Inside and Knot Standard
     
  18. mimo

    mimo Senior member

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    My few grenadines are all fina. My grossness is covered by a couple of knits. :)

    Navy plus navy crosses from sober to timid. Cool comes from within.

    The standard SF recommendation of a light blue shirt works well. I like white shirts too. I like blue more with burgundy. But no stripes or contrast collars - one GQ point too far when added to your fun suit.

    As you said, there are a lot of different interpretations of the DB. There is the iron-clad Savile Row banker type with a chalk stripe and red socks, the mid 80s New Romantic type in pastel shades with enormous shoulder pads, the petit Pitti hipster version shown above...I can see why a lot of people don't like them. But if they fit well, and manage to avoid looking too much like any of the aforementioned*, I think they're great. The short lapel three button stuffed sausage jackets that I recall also from the early 90s, are perhaps best left for hunting tweeds and breeks.

    *Exceptions can be made if you're a really important financier, member of Duran Duran/Spandau Ballet, or gay Neopolitan scarf vendor, respectively.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2016
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  19. Isolation

    Isolation Senior member

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    That's what I am saying, DB being considered old fashioned was a relatively recent phenomenon, certainly does not go back as far as post-war.

    Quote: Well, that's up to you to decide, but Chan is well respected and quite a few members here use HK tailors and are regarded as having very good taste and well fitting suits. I'm not up to par by comparison, but I like what I ended up with:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    My tailor had a notable price hike recently, but when I got these they were something like 3000 HKD a jacket or so, but more with quarter lining and MoP buttons. Now it'll be about 4-4.5k. There are also other options around that might be better.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2016
  20. UrbanComposition

    UrbanComposition Senior member

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    Burgundy ties are fine. So are navy, but better. Either is OK.
     

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