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Good Natured Advice Thread (improving a business wardrobe)

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Claghorn, Jan 6, 2014.

  1. skeen7908

    skeen7908 Senior member

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    Because I want to understand what makes him distressed so I can avoid saying something similar here or elsewhere

    It seems bizarre that was the post that was considered offensive while there was an entire conversation about Chinese women being gold diggers going on
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2015
  2. Academic2

    Academic2 Senior member

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    You assume, incorrectly, that no-one found that offensive.

    Cheers,

    Ac
     
    6 people like this.
  3. Isolation

    Isolation Senior member

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    I've already made a point about calling women golddiggers before that's why I didn't want to repeat it.

    The offensive part to me is using periods as a means of dismissing women's points/motivations as "purely emotional" and "unstable", highlighted especially by the irony from someone who is quite unstable calling women unstable. There's plenty of academic debate about emotional control between men and women (conventional beliefs are not to be believed fully), but I don't want to clutter this with that. Look it up and believe what you choose. It doesn't matter even if it's true, it's still part of an extremely misogynystic culture to dismiss someone based on the possibility that they are a woman and might be having a period. It's an ad hominen and doesn't do anything aside from infuriate a person. If they are wrong, say they are wrong, if they are ridiculous, say they are ridiculous. It is entirely unhelpful to start talking about their biology. I don't say someone's being over dramatic because they have a period, and I don't tell noodles he's overcompensating about masculinity because he's got a small asian penis, as an analogy of what that kind of language is like for women. None of those kinds of insult serve any purpose.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2015
    3 people like this.
  4. skeen7908

    skeen7908 Senior member

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    Except that maybe he said "ugh periods" because it makes a mess when he has sex?

    And you're also disregarding the fact that PMS is a controversial but somewhat recognised medical condition with conflicting scientific literature

    I just think it is a big stretch for anyone to find the comment offensive, especially in the context of a genial conversation with w gay man and especially coming from a rather hapless and dominated individual such as cao cao
     
  5. Academic2

    Academic2 Senior member

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    I think we can bring this to an end.

    The poster in question has admitted he's a troll, so what more needs to be said?

    Only, perhaps, that there's a long history here which it seems you do not know. That makes you lucky, by the way.[​IMG]

    Cheers,

    Ac
     
  6. Coxsackie

    Coxsackie Senior member

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    Hey Iso, relax just a little.

    Women have periods. Men have smegma. And gender-othered people, well, I'm sure they have some kind of effluent too. Maybe a combination.

    I don't think it's necessarily the end of the world if someone makes a joke about biological excrescences. Depends on the joke, of course.

    You know what happens when someone drops a fart in front of a three-year-old? The kid laughs. Is this kid forcing an offensively pejorative anti-irritable-bowel-syndrome stereotype on the farter, indeed on sufferers of flatus the world over? Probably. Terrible, isn't it. We should therefore all be outraged and vent our spleen with extreme loquacity on menswear fora.

    (Is "vent our spleen" ok? I'm concerned that some people who've had splenectomies might feel oppressed by this turn of phrase.)
     
    1 person likes this.
  7. Chaconne

    Chaconne Senior member

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    I think this is why PMs were invented on public forums and why, in the "real" world, people reserve certain comments for those they know well.
     
  8. Claghorn

    Claghorn Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    [​IMG]
     
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  9. colco

    colco Senior member

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    you have posted racist and sexist things a few times and been called on it no? including more or less starting this recent little blow up. perhaps, instead of telling others to "relax, a little", you could realize what century it is. or perhaps wait 24 hours before you press submit on a post that is not strictly clothing related.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2015
    2 people like this.
  10. kulata

    kulata Senior member

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    The level of PC is getting out of line but its always better to focus on clothing.
     
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  11. Isolation

    Isolation Senior member

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    Cox I like you, I don't think I'm likely to change your mind, and while I am listening to you, I don't think you're likely to change mine either, and I am fine to agree to disagree.

    But I will say is that to you what is intended as a light hearted joke may be, or echo, some more sinister ones, and I trust the women who tell me of their experience, more than men who don't notice it telling me it doesn't exist. Maybe when you say it it's never serious, but you form part of a culture that believes periods making women unstable a thing, in fact, there are literaly people who think women can't be president because they control nuclear weapons and what if they are on their periods, etc etc. We live in the kind of world that uses that kind of rhetoric, and therefore even if you're not personally telling women they can't be president, you're strengthening the culture that, at least partially, uses that rhetoric to dismiss women.

    I don't think your analogy is similar at all. People fart, we don't think a person is useless because he farts. Maybe a bit clusmy, or not classy, or embarrassing, but we don't use it to dismiss their contribution in politics, in science, in academia, etc. Women do. Literally get told when they disagree with someone in a debate, that they must be on their periods, ie. they don't have actual valid complaints, if they weren't hormonal they wouldn't have disagreed. It's intellectually dishonest, it's an ad hominen, it's logically fallacious, it's shoddy.

    Now I know you're not specifically using it in those ways, but the perpetuation of this idea will make it happen.

    Also, like I said, there is research shown that women have better emotional control under stressful conditions, even factoring periods. As mentioned though, it's controversial, but debated is not the same as "assumed true" the way it generally is.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2015
    2 people like this.
  12. skeen7908

    skeen7908 Senior member

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    But PMS or premenstrual dysphoric disorder is actually a thing (sort of)

    Would you deny the existence of autism? Or ADHD?

    He never said that women can't be president. He just expressed a distaste for periods

    You have then wildly extrapolated that to all four corners of the globe, including that his penis is small

    Why not take him by his intent, which was some good-hearted and friendly banter


    I second the advice to chill out

    In this good-natured advice thread everyone is being good natured except one person!
     
  13. Claghorn

    Claghorn Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I count 2-4. Always hard to tell online. Comments designed to provoke but laced with plausible deniability allowing for a wide eyed "who me?" look of innocence and disbelief.

    Anyway, someone suggested the use of private messages. It was a good suggestion
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2015
  14. Isolation

    Isolation Senior member

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    I obviously do not deny existence of mental illnesses. I am bipolar 2. But it's quite one thing to say bipolar people have moments of mania/hypomania and depression, and quite another to assume that anything they think or say is due to their mental condition and therefore cannot be counted as their actual opinion, or their opinion would be considered invalid or less valid, not by its lack of merit, but because it came from a person who is bipolar, or depressive, or autistic, or a woman.

    Now maybe this doesn't happen, people are rarely actually being discredited in public, academic, or situations that are significant for their careers for these reasons, their logical explanations, their arguments, their points, their accomplishments, all overruled by the fact that they MIGHT be affected by hormones or chemicals or mental illnesses. If you think so, let's just agree to disagree.

    I think I define good natured differently from you Skeen, if you think I am very not good natured. I don't like people hurting other people, especially when I think they might not realize they are doing it. I'm not attacking people for fun. If you think so, well, you best ignore me then. There's no use for you to argue with a sadist.

    Since Claghorn asked, I am done with this topic. Peace.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2015
    1 person likes this.
  15. Patrick R

    Patrick R Senior member

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    This is the real world.
     
  16. Isolation

    Isolation Senior member

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    THIS. IS. STYLEFORUM.

    Can imagine we've provided plenty of #styfodude content tonight.
     
  17. sprout2

    sprout2 Senior member

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    <Looks up from screen>
    W-what...?
    This... is the real world.
    [​IMG]
     
    1 person likes this.
  18. PCK1

    PCK1 Senior member

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    The utility of this thread ended long ago.

    I motion to have this thread locked and archived.
     
    4 people like this.
  19. venividivicibj

    venividivicibj Senior member

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    Btw hope you know you're reading noodles posts late, which means some of the ...more distressing? parts have been edited out. Also, I don't think you understand - as a new poster- all of the backstory, which no doubt contributed to this blow up.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2015
    1 person likes this.
  20. Isolation

    Isolation Senior member

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    I kinda like it. It's basically my idea of a general discussion thread for styleforum,
     
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