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Good Natured Advice Thread (improving a business wardrobe)

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Claghorn, Jan 6, 2014.

  1. kulata

    kulata Senior member

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  2. jrd617

    jrd617 Senior member

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    Why are the Jorts so damn expensive? $600 bucks for SuitSupply? What the f?
     
  3. losrockets

    losrockets Senior member

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    Full canvas. The materials are also pretty decent, as is the case with most higher-priced SS stuff (show me other RTW companies offering such varied and interesting fabrics in SS' price range). Honestly it looks like a pretty solid value to me. I'll probably get a Jort jacket in the next 12-15 months.
     
    3 people like this.
  4. poorsod

    poorsod Senior member

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    Given the items you are looking at are quite close aesthetically, have you considered asking what you want to learn from having one item or another? For me, much of the clothing I have bought in the last 10 years have revolved around trying to gain first hand knowledge. There are lots of opinions being thrown around the forum and there is no way to know "the truth" until you try it yourself.

    For example, 10 years ago I was new to Classic Menswear and there was a lot of talk in the media about Super wools and it seemed there was a Super wool arms race. WSJ even wrote an article doing lab tests on suits from different makers. (Ironically, there is even a response from lawyer for the Donald Trump suit maker.)

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB116320267593320299

    OTOH some on the forum were pushing back high super number fabric suits. WW Chan had a $900 special for a 2 piece S150 Charles Clayton, so I decided to try it. The suit fit better than any RTW I ever owned and silky smooth to the touch, but it didn't hang or move elegantly.

    So another way to approach your decision is to ask yourself is there something you want to learn from owning those you coats? And if so, is that knowledge worth the difference in price.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2015
    3 people like this.
  5. Pliny

    Pliny Senior member

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    #1 is 'other people's opinions'

    I've tried to pick 'which fabric is which?' with my eyes closed, from a selection of worsted suitings, but while I can discern some by weight and by coarseness (a coarse open weave feels different to say a wool + cashmere suiting) I can't tell most worsteds apart.

    imo it's a bit like blind wine tasting or, really, any lay person's attempt to discern the quality of an aesthetic object is more about what we know about the label than any objective quality of the beverage/instrument/cloth itself.

    My personal preference is for -
    1. the heaviest cloth-weight you can comfortably wear (better drape)
    2. low super numbers > high
    3. English > Italian > everybody else
    4. 'dry' > 'wet' cloth
     
    4 people like this.
  6. Mr. Six

    Mr. Six Senior member

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    One thing I'll say about the Jort after looking at the photos more is that I find the skirt and chest a little too close. I think the model would look more like what I think it's trying to achieve with a bit more room in both. Or maybe it's that the soft shoulder would be more coherent with more room in both.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2015
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  7. Newcomer

    Newcomer Senior member

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    I think Elioda keyed into the issue (well, at lease the issue for me). To me, the Jort just looks a bit too clean. I have a single SuSu suit, and when I initially tried the jacket on with the pants I was wearing at the time, it looked off. I think SuSu is best in suit form. YMMV, of course. For example, Murl looks great.

    I picked a suit out in the Havana cut--which is one of their more casual cuts--and it gives off such a clean feel that I really would not want the jacket in "odd jacket" form.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Personally, with that tan fabric, I prefer the Formosa Delfino.
     
  8. kulata

    kulata Senior member

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    You are trying too hard

    @Newcomer that looks dope, I prefer the fit to your Formosas in many ways
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2015
  9. Coxsackie

    Coxsackie Senior member

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    Now that we're on the subject of Formosa, I popped into the NMWA warehouse yesterday to pick up my chosen Vass shoes. (I believe this was a favour from Greg given that I'm an out-of-towner - not sure he would like to be inundated with punters knocking on his warehouse door at all hours.)

    Thought I'd pop on a few Formosas just to see how they fitted me, with a view to future online purchases. Of course, there was one suit that I fell utterly in love with - indeed, one which I would never have picked from the online store. It's a tan linen, plain weave Carnet fabric.

    [​IMG]


    Here are some snaps of me with the suit on - sleeves are folded inwards to approximate correct length, and I've turned the trouser hems up.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Seems to be a near-perfect fit off the rack. Clean back and chest, no lapel bowing, collar gap or shoulder divots. My only issue is the little folds near the sleeve seams at back - but Greg advised me that this is in fact typical for a Neapolitan-cut suit, due to the very high-cut armscyes and fabric allowances to facilitate easy range of shoulder movement.

    Does that sound right? I really like this suit and am pretty keen to kop. (There goes my budget restraint - yet again!)
     
    5 people like this.
  10. TweedyProf

    TweedyProf Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    @Coxsackie

    Yes, get it.

    The post is well timed given what we talked about, but the drape in the chest is very apparent here. Perhaps take the waist in a touch. Trouser will fall more cleanly once it is hemmed. But very nice.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2015
    1 person likes this.
  11. TweedyProf

    TweedyProf Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Continuing on the earlier posts (I should say, the decision was not about the two jackets but about two styles of jacket).

    @poorsod

    I completely agree about the learning aspect (though some lessons are costlier than others). There is, I suppose, an evolution of one's conception, so long as one is willing to learn. We talked about rules in the Lounge thread, but the point of rules and "rules" is to provide constraints within which we operate and vary our choices. Within that, I think there is much room for aesthetic enjoyment and play, which must result from trying things out. So I very much endorse what you say. For me, the decision was not about which of the two jackets to choose (the Jort fits my "cleaner" lines center point on jackets...I like them cut that way and my torso mostly can take it), but on how to decide between the two styles, especially given resource constraints. What I'm gravitating to is that for the three winter tweeds I want next (blue/grey herringbone, some rust/brown (more rust than brown), and some green cloth, perhaps donegal), I would prefer the more voluminous feel of the Formosa.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2015
  12. Pliny

    Pliny Senior member

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    @Coxsackie what a surprise u went for something with earthy tones.

    that barchetta creeps up the armpit a bit doesn't it? still it's all very nice, mazel tov
     
    1 person likes this.
  13. Newcomer

    Newcomer Senior member

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    Yeah I agree. I like both for different purposes but the susu works extremely well. I will be purchasing more in the very, very near future.
     
  14. TweedyProf

    TweedyProf Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    On aesthetic. I perhaps differ on summer/spring cuts. For example, on linen shirts, I do not like the "blousier" cut common in RTW linen shirts, though that has a function of letting one air out more in the summer and it is a distinctive, familiar look. For me, the wrinkling and texture of linen is enough to give off the linen vibe. So, I still have my summer shirts cut slim and along the body. For jacket's, I prefer the leaner/cleaner look as an anchor point, and then, my style emanates from there. Such is one's aesthetics.

    But, on to drape. Coxsackie's post is well timed given our discussion. You can see the difference in the chest in his pic. In fact, here's me in a Formosa, one size up from the above with the smaller size below for comparison. There's a bit more room, visually, in the chest, though it's hard to tell from these pics, but I think you can see a difference (the drape is not as noticeable as in C's pic). I sized down more for the waist (Delfino) and other alterations that would need to be done to clean up the jacket (such as the back; for me, Formosa in my "size" is cut a slightly bigger all around).

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    On the skirt, the difference between the two jacket's I started with is not so clear to me (@Mr. Six), but maybe you meant that there is the same issue in both? To me, both seem to have an appropriate symmetry from the shoulder to hip (for example, if you were to draw a line from seam down to my hip). The shoulder extension of the Formosa is more desirable as it ends up emphasizing the chest more (thinking of two triangles drawn, top and bottom, with the top a bit bigger). Which is why, in the end, I would prefer the Formosa cut.

    Anyway, on the skirt, I'm more inclined to say that it's really the drape of the fabrics, with the Delfino having a more relaxed feel (as in your pic). The fabric is an advantage of the Formosa, given its inclination to rumple. I think that's pleasing for summer though it does raise an issue about matching the trouser fabric accordingly (you wouldn't want a clean cut fabric for trousers).

    For me, the important differences between Jort and Formosa in terms of cut are above the button/waist. They both fit quite trim (indeed, the measured size of the Formosa Delfino is smaller than the Jort, which tells you how the pattern/cut makes a difference). Sorry, I'll put up the pic for ease of reference since three (and more data points).


    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2015
  15. heldentenor

    heldentenor Senior member

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    All of those makeups would look fantastic in the more dimensional, "flowing" look of the Formosa. I think the lighter fabric in the examples you've tried on favors the clean silhouette of the Jort.

    By the way, you know that Greg bought a few rust/brown herringbone tweed from Formosa for the rack at NMWA this season?
     
  16. TweedyProf

    TweedyProf Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Yes, I saw the fabric when I was visiting NMWA. I thought it was more brown with rust highlights whereas I'm thinking more of a rust base (the photos in the thread make it appear more orange, but when I saw it, its seemed to be less so). Which isn't to deny that it has clear rust highlights. The problem is that I already have a brown jacket (as you know) and while the weight isn't nearly as heavy, and texture as coarse, it's something I wear through the winter.

    Anyway, I'll wait to see the jacket, since hard to tell from a swatch in indoor light what it will look like in a full tweedy jacket.

    The blue HB I'm thinking of is this from the same book:

    [​IMG]

    It looks grey here, but I'm pretty sure it's clearly blue IRL. Nice, yes? I'm hoping to foment excitement for this for the next round of GMTO in May (so really, for next year). Anyone interested?
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2015
  17. kulata

    kulata Senior member

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    This looks so good on you. You'd be crazy not to buy it and I see more Formosa suits in your future. The cut works for you
     
  18. heldentenor

    heldentenor Senior member

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    That blue herringbone will look great and provide the ultimate in winter versatility. Wish I could do some Formosa but I'm pretty tapped out for big purchases. Every time a friend gets married (and they seem to with regularity) I think, "there goes a Formosa jacket."
     
  19. TweedyProf

    TweedyProf Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    ^This would be for next winter. The time it would take to drum up support would make it difficult to enjoy this season. So, you can save up. It will be an awesome coat, perfect for academics in cold climates.

    To get to a point where I could dress with variety and appropriateness everyday at work, I made some short cuts the past 3 years (so, relying on sales to find staples, but then getting what was available, within my scheme). At this point, I recognize that to get the few signature pieces I feel would round out the basics of my wardrobe, I need to go all in on pieces like Formosa. When the kids go to college, perhaps I might try bespoke.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2015
  20. Murlsquirl

    Murlsquirl Senior member Moderator

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    This.
     

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