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Good Natured Advice Thread (improving a business wardrobe)

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Claghorn, Jan 6, 2014.

  1. Andy57

    Andy57 Senior member

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    Yes, we differ philosophically on this matter. I'm glad we can do so in an amicable way.

    I think the crux of our disagreement is that I'm far less convinced that the assertion that peaked lapels are wrong with a SB odd jacket has any basis in tradition. I suspect it's a much more modern convention that has formed as we've become more conservative in an effort to maintain a style or form of dress that we perceive to be slipping away. We, as a community, are more self-conscious now than I suspect people were back in the day. This leads us to condense a set of rules to keep us from straying too far from the received ideal. I also think that StyleForum has a very definite set of rules and norms of its own. As I've spent more time here that has become clear. Some are refreshing in the sense that they possibly make things clear for me. Others seem to me purely arbitrary and I find myself rejecting them. Mostly, I think the distinction is made based on how closely such a rule matches either my own preconception or fills a void in my understanding, or not.

    Finally, StyFo is a conservative place. It might be more prudent in the present case to assert that peaked lapels should not be worn on a single breasted odd jacket is a StyleForum rule, rather than one that pertains to a wider community.

    Did I beat that to death yet? [​IMG][​IMG]
     
    3 people like this.
  2. GuP

    GuP Senior member

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    archi : I can't read all that. Gimme a summary.

    Edit - NVM. I read it. No need for summary.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2015
  3. GuP

    GuP Senior member

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    StyleForum Rules >>>> All other rules in all other lands.
     
  4. archibaldleach

    archibaldleach Senior member

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    Likewise, am glad this can be amicable. This is supposed to be a fun hobby after all. I suspect that SF is probably more conservative than the average suit wearer from 50-80 years ago but is probably less conservative than the greatest rules sticklers from those days. I'll admit that I find myself erring on the conservative side of things (as is probably obvious).

    I definitely wouldn't put "no peak lapels with odd jackets" in a top 10 list of most important rules (hell, it wouldn't make the top 20), but I do think there is some tradition and logic behind it. It also may very well be partly a modern thing. I don't think anyone would blink at one wearing a peak lapel suit 50 years ago but now it has taken on more of a dandified connotation. This probably spills over a bit into the odd jacket discussion too.
     
  5. Monkeyface

    Monkeyface Senior member

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    You know that pants are optional under SF rules?
     
  6. kulata

    kulata Senior member

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    So where did you pull the rule from then?
     
  7. archibaldleach

    archibaldleach Senior member

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    I realize this answer isn't helpful, but I can't pinpoint one particular source without spending way more time than I want to on this. After a certain amount of time learning about this stuff, it becomes difficult to remember exactly where I read something for the first time / mix of prose vs. photographs vs. film, etc.
     
  8. TM79

    TM79 Senior member

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    I love everything about this ADHD reply.
     
  9. europrep

    europrep Senior member

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    The owner of my company wears peak lapel for suit and sport coats. His tailor is a well respected and well known tailor out of NYC. I was with him one day at the shop, and the tailor didn't hesitate about putting peak lapel on a sport coat, but did tell my boss he was crazy for wanting 3 buttons with his peaks. He said peaks should always have two buttons.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2015
  10. Monkeyface

    Monkeyface Senior member

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    And even that is wrong, as three button peak lapel suits were quite common in the 1920s-30s, judging from the drawings.
     
  11. lordsuperb

    lordsuperb Senior member

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    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2015
    2 people like this.
  12. europrep

    europrep Senior member

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    Are you assuming the historic pictures are gospel? I take this tailor's word over you, me, or pictures.
     
  13. Monkeyface

    Monkeyface Senior member

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    I'm assuming that historical pictures have at least some truth to them, otherwise we might as well do away with the whole field of history, right? Secondary and teriary sources can be good sources as well. Anyways, here's something more recent. This looks like a three button peak lapel:
    [​IMG]

    And here we have a 3r2 peak lapel:
    [​IMG]

    Another 3r2 peak lapel:
    [​IMG]


    Hercule Poirot:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Douglas Fairbanks with a 3r2, the list goes on and on:
    [​IMG]

    From a dude's blogpost about 1930s suits: http://www.gentlemansgazette.com/1930-fashion-style-mens-suits/
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2015
  14. sprout2

    sprout2 Senior member

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    I should really check my notifications more often. And start reading this thread (it looks very interesting...and massive!)

    As a basic yardstick, a Ring Jacket SC in their in-house fabrics (Creamy Waffle, Balloon, etc.) could be had for USD 600 (before shipping, etc.) The special cloths and one-offs like deadstock Carlo Barbera fabrics start to range from 780 USD to 950 USD, with north of 1000 USD for some unusual, needlessly luxurious items. The midpoint for a suit is 800USD, before getting into things like S140s, Mohair, and (again) Carlo Barbera.

    The dollar is extremely strong to the yen now, plus Ring's offerings are reasonably priced in the first place.

    I'm kind of kicking around for a side project to do, so if there is real (not tire-kicking) interest in proxying SCs in your size, I am happy to facilitate with door-to-door, tracked and insured courier.
     
    4 people like this.
  15. europrep

    europrep Senior member

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    No doubt historical pictures can be very useful. I was merely saying gents in the 20-30s could have been expressing themselves outside the general rules as well, so it can be misleading without knowing context or intent. I am purely going on one person's word, I just happen to trust that person.

    Side note, I can't tell if any of those pictures are 3 button.
     
  16. Joenobody0

    Joenobody0 Senior member

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    $600 for a jacket or $800 for a suit is almost down to SuitSupply pricing. Do they have a website? I only see mention on The Armoury site.
     
  17. Monkeyface

    Monkeyface Senior member

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    Look closer. One person's word vs. literally 100s of pictures.
     
  18. sprout2

    sprout2 Senior member

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    There are numerous vendors and boutiques, in addition to their five direct points of sale. I just did some cursory research on the price range.

    The Ring website is a bit sparse and mostly features their blog. They have a lot more in shop. In general, their direct points of sale offer the best value, with boutiques adding a slight markup (still quite reasonable).

    Exhibit A:

    [​IMG][​IMG]


    Creamy Waffle, 100% wool, unpadded shoulder and enlarged sleevehead, unlined. The wool has an open weave and slight stretch. This comes in a size range from EU42 to 52
    and costs ---> 530 USD.

    If you give me a sense of what you are looking for, I could try to drill down and look for certain items. Or we could do a group buy across an entire size run. Or I could make a spreadsheet. It would help if people threw out suggestions of what they are looking for, so I can try to provide matching for that.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2015
    1 person likes this.
  19. Monkeyface

    Monkeyface Senior member

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    Do they have long sizes? I'd be afraid that the regular sizes might be too short. I believe the Armoury made their own longer cut in order to be able to sell it in the Western world.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2015
  20. Joenobody0

    Joenobody0 Senior member

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    I'm wondering the opposite - at 5"8 would I be a regular or short?
     

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