Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Claghorn, Jan 6, 2014.
Cash it out, Noodles.
Ugh...I just told my wife that she can have it.
Or buy your wife a gift...build up those "chips" you can cash in later for NMWA purchases.
Edit: i was a couple minutes too late
FTFY. Marriage is give and take.
Also a fine solution.
...thus far, it's been all give
Then you are due.
We're talking about someone who has no problems spending $20k on shoes in one week, and probably half that on shirts/ties and suits.
If you can spend $30k a week without it eating into your savings, making a few $5k bespoke mistakes is no big deal.
He could commission 5 bespoke suits a week at this pace, or more reasonably/less consumerist, at least 10-15 a year.
As long as he listens more to the tailor and less to himself he'll end up with a tasteful suit. Any good tailor (like liverano) will tell you when a fabric is jacketing only, what lapels you need, how much drape, etc, because a badly made/inappropriate suit will reflect badly on the tailor.
re: "growing out" of a tailor
I think this really depends on what one's priorities are in terms of dressing. If it is living the tumblr dream of having L&L or Rubinacci or something as your tailor, then yeah, money allowing, you'll probably want to eventually get there. If it is achieving some look (and I mean this in a broad sense, as I doubt many of us...I hope...have a dream of achieving a certain jacket cut), then this might not be necessary.
I don't think I'll ever grow out of B&T to some non-regional tailor. I'm perfectly happy with what they do for me. I may try KW MTM at some point as well, just because it's nice to have options.
Not saying that JFrat is like me in this regard (more concerned with the ends rather than the means with the means themselves not really being an end), but if KW and Luxire (especially, as I see a far smaller benefit in jumping from Luxire to a high end bespoke shirt maker) are able to do it for him, then the chief reason for jumping ship is for the sake of variety of tailors (which is nice).
We're you just chastizing him for pre-paying 1500?
But in seriousness, waste is waste, regardless of how much money a person has. And it isn't just money being wasted. If you care about this sort of thing, it is also a tailor's expertise being frittered away. And fabric.
Two final notes:
I'm curious what JFrat has to say about all this.
Also, and I don't know how this has been lost, KW and L&L aren't mutually exclusive. Just because he's getting KW now doesn't mean he won't get L&L in the future, or that wants he goes L&L, he'll stop going to KW entirely.
When I was in Seoul, I used a bespoke tailor and an MTM tailor concurrently. There are also plenty of people (Holdfast comes to mind) with a very respectable bespoke tailor who also used Suit Supply regularly. And I don't think such a choice is necessarily about money.
In re Stitchy and Monkeyface:
MF kind of summarized what I was trying to say, but a tad more succinctly. Here, we have someone who has 20 pairs of $1k+ shoes incoming. If money is going to be spent, I just feel like it should be directed in the best manner possible.
And I agree with MF regarding listening to the tailor. Even as a greenhorn, if you are quiet, and let the tailor do his job, I think that you are going to turn out pretty well. Especially a tailor with a sterling reputation.
Jfrater is not the easiest fit, by his own statements. He has a larger chest, and I think that a bespoke suit would much, much better address his problems than MTM, or RTW. In fact, MTM carries the risk (especially when the measurements are done by himself) of looking even worse, and accentuating pre-existing problems. Of course, this is just my opinion, and is by no means correct. Just my feelings on the issue.
Clags, thanks for the response. I agree with a lot of what you have said, and disagree with some.
First, my suggestion for L&L was primarily based on jfrater's own statement earlier in this thread. He mentioned he would be traveling to Florence (jealous) later this year, and is interested in commissioning something with L&L while he was there.
I think there is room for having multiple tailors, for sure. I can certainly see the benefit. But at this point, I think J would benefit from the process being a bit more streamlined.
I guess my worries are that MTM carries so much risk, and I do not think that it is that much of an upgrade from what he currently has. Jfrat has some outstanding, really high end RTW. I view KW MTM as somewhat duplicative, and, as mentioned above, a side-grade rather than an upgrade. We are not dealing with someone with some Jos A Bank gear. We are dealing with someone who has an extensive wardrobe of Saint Andrews, Kiton, Brioni, et al. I think it makes more sense to tailor what he has, and do, what I interpret to be, a larger upgrade.
I know they usually let their images do the talking for them, but I'd be very interested to hear what @Sander and @Braddock have to say about this. I believe that they integrate some RTW stuff into their bespoke rotation pretty frequently, but I could be wrong. If they do, I can rarely tell the difference--which is a testament to the skill with which they do it.
I think if you're getting what you want, neither the label nor the process should take on paramount importance. People usually find their definition of "what they want" getting narrower and more precise as they get deeper into the RTW cuts that work for them, and especially when they hit MTM and bespoke (I assume), but that happens in most facets of human endeavor.
Thanks for putting the time into writing this! I think you do have quite a good point and I will most definitely give consideration to P Johnson. As it happens I am at in Auckland right now trying out a bespoke tailor that had been mentioned on SF in the past so hopefully a step in the right direction.
Sander and Braddock do. I recently got an SS jacket that fits wonderfully, so count me in that camp.
Well, it'll take a few years to get everything right with L&L. It'll take months with KW.
Look forward to hearing about it!
To be honest, I don't get the hype. In the full length shots at pitti you can see their bespoke stuff isn't that great. Pulling at the buttons, too tight jackets, trousers that are too tight/short, etc. Their fabric choices are excellent though.
I suspect they incorporate RTW into their wardrobe because a tie company probably doesn't make them enough money for a fully bespoke wardrobe. This doesn't mean their company is bad, it just shows how expensive bespoke is.
If I had the money (meaning I wouldn't have to give up anything else to buy clothes), I'd go for full bespoke for sure: suits, shirts, coats, shoes, etc. It's fun, and a perfectly fitting jacket or pair of trousers is just so much more comfortable than RTW. I think this would be the case for most here.
The problem is that good a good bespoke suits starts at around $3k, and it's more like $5-$8k if you use a well established, non-traveling tailor. It's tremendously expensive, even for most well-off people.
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