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Good Natured Advice Thread (improving a business wardrobe)

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Claghorn, Jan 6, 2014.

  1. Betelgeuse

    Betelgeuse Senior member

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    Noodeles, what shoe size do you wear?
     
  2. New Shoes1

    New Shoes1 Senior member

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    Also, are you on team round toe or team square/chisel toe?

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  3. in stitches

    in stitches Senior member Moderator

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    my clique > your clique
     
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  4. Sundance

    Sundance Active Member

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    @archibaldleach @Claghorn @sugarbutch --Thanks for the advice! Updates below, though I tightened the list to 13 ties instead of 16 to make it slightly more manageable.

    One additional question: do yall see any conflict in a fit containing a brown tie and black shoes, or vice versa?



    Styles:
    1. Solid
    2. Repp stripe
    3. Pindot
    4. Neat

    Colors:
    1. Navy
    2. Burgundy
    3. Black
    4. Brown
    5. Gray
    6. Dark green


    (6) SOLID
    ..........Navy
    ..........Burgundy
    ..........Black
    ..........Brown
    ..........Gray
    ..........Green


    (2) REPP
    ..........Navy
    ..........Brown


    (2) PINDOT
    ..........Navy
    ..........Black


    (3) NEAT
    ..........Navy
    ..........Burgundy
    ..........Green
     
    1 person likes this.
  5. mimo

    mimo Senior member

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    Of course they would. Unless you're part of some weird new SF ascetic tendency that says men should only have three pairs of shoes. Or, maybe, ten or something. Since when were shoes an either/or? How many shirts you got? And loads of those are probably the same. Shoes, man. Get more shoes. These AND some more countrified derbies. Because this is Styleforum, and shoes are loved, and changed daily like socks and ties and stuff. Fucking YES!

    Also wholecuts, adelaides, balmorals, double and single monks, royal, full, half and quarter brogues (oxford and derby), Norwegians (split toes and construction), Belgian, Venetian, tassel, penny and Prince Albert loafers, double soles, haf soles, long boots, short boots, balmoral boots, chukka boots, Osloer boots, spectators...a lot of spectators....how much longer you need to think about this?

    Right, back to Noodles' shoes: what we have here is your sub-conscious starting to tell you useful things instead of recite advertisements from GQ. Your brain is telling you that there is something wrong about pair number one, and it is that a cap toe is a more formal style - CBD indeed, while a derby is less formal. We will come back to that. Then what you have picked out instead, despite having expressed no prior interest in a more country look, is a full or wingtip brogue. Which works perfectly well as an oxford or derby. Why? Because the elements are consistent: a brogue is traditionally a heavier country shoe, thereby having a consistency of purpose with the casual derby. Yet it is also well-established as an option with a suit, particularly in oxford form, where the two styles cross over.

    I would generally say still that an oxford brogue would be better for your CBD needs than a derby. But then I would also be full of crap, because I have a full brogue derby that I wear with a suit. It's on an elegant last, it's black and shiny, and the brogueing, double sole and open lacing do not diminish it: it's a little like the concept of wearing brown shoes with a business suit, in that it could be seen as less formal, but provided it retains some dressy elements (in this case, being black and shiny and elegantly-shaped therefore very much NOT a country brogue), it works. That's also a matter of personal style. I think a heavier shoe might be something you enjoy the look of.

    Now of course there's a contradiction there because I just said mixing formal and casual in one shoe was why yours weren't right. But you just have to trust me here, that breaking rules is better when it is preceded by their understanding. I think you can get away with the second shoe here as a very deliberate rule-break. But it does look pretty "country", and I'm not sure if the last shape is consistent with your CBD. I'd suggest you perhaps look again and get a black oxford brogue on a prettier, dressier last, if the design appeals - and no reason why it shouldn't.

    Closed lacing makes a neater shape across the top of your foot and the overall effect is more elegant. Open lacing is designed to make it easier to put your shoes on and take them off, especially with thick socks, when you've stood in some cow shit or whatever.

    Madness. Listen to JRD, and see previous suggestions to LTBR: $1250 would buy a different pair of shoes for every day of the working week, and none of them any less attractive or well-made than these - or at least two pairs of real stunners. Stop looking at the labels, Noodles, and look at the damn shoes.

    cf. Monkeyface above: the correct answer is "both".
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2014
  6. archibaldleach

    archibaldleach Senior member

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    @Sundance, I personally do not have an issue with a brown tie worn with black shoes. Others may disagree and it is perhaps a bit of a contentious issue, but I think you'll be fine. If you want to take extreme caution, don't do it, but otherwise I think you can be fine. That said, most outfits where a brown tie works can also take brown shoes so it may be a moot point.

    @Rudals, suits on a daily basis are a fact of life for you. Oxfords are more CBD than derbys and are traditionally considered more appropriate with suits. Disregard this if you like, but if you are wearing suits on a regular basis, you really should just suck it up and buy the sorts of shoes that are actually designed to be worn with suits. Others have explained the whole closed vs. open lacing point and the Manton thread cited is useful too, so I'm not going to get into it. Ultimately, if you are actually making the effort to buy new stuff, why would you want to waste time and money on things that are sub-optimal?
     
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  7. sugarbutch

    sugarbutch Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Sundance, that list seems good to me.

    Everyone talking about captoe derbies: Please. A sleek example is perfectly fine with a suit. This is America, dammit.
     
  8. Claghorn

    Claghorn Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Is there no #teambicycletoe?
     
  9. jrd617

    jrd617 Senior member

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    [​IMG]
     
  10. Rudals

    Rudals Senior member

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    Thank you to all who commented on shoes. I want to punch myself for making such stupid purchases before I joined SF.

    I've gots a lots to learn, still a lots. Aw dear lawrd...
     
  11. jrd617

    jrd617 Senior member

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  12. Rudals

    Rudals Senior member

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    :lurk:

    ROFL. JRD~ you is too funny~:lol:
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2014
  13. Rudals

    Rudals Senior member

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    That...might cost you about $1,500...for economy!!!
    So I'd just stays home if I is you.
     
  14. Rudals

    Rudals Senior member

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    10D for then ill fitting useless derbies.
     
  15. mimo

    mimo Senior member

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    This is Styleforum, dammit. Why would we suggest he buy anything that's "perfectly fine"? "This is America" (or insert country of choice) is an invitation to the average. No, sir, Noodles must be elevated beyond.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2014
  16. tchoy

    tchoy Senior member

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    1 person likes this.
  17. Claghorn

    Claghorn Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Oh, earlier in this thread there was talk about the different grenadine mills. Bianchi makes the prometeo and piccola and Fermati makes the grossa and fina.
     
    3 people like this.
  18. TweedyProf

    TweedyProf Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I'm curious about this anti brown tie/black shoe view (with which you disagree). Is there something particularly off putting about brown tie with black shoe (contrast brown suit with black shoe). Is brown in some sense inherently country so that it speaks against black shoes? I can feel, though not articulate, why the brown tie/black shoe might in some way be jarring (e.g. that the better choice would be an appropriately complementary shade of brown in the shoe). That said, one wears a host of colors for ties with black shoes.
     
  19. TweedyProf

    TweedyProf Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I was interested in people's sense of the weaves from both or whether, as it seems, the choice is mostly made on the basis of large/small and then color available from each mill.
     
  20. New Shoes1

    New Shoes1 Senior member

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    My personal opinion is that it stands out the same way that a brown belt with black shoes does and gives the perception that you do not know what you are doing. That said, I'm sure there are examples of people pulling this combination off where the execution on everything else is flawless.
     

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