Good Natured Advice Thread (improving a business wardrobe)

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Claghorn, Jan 6, 2014.

  1. TweedyProf

    TweedyProf Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Really a tailor's question in the end but a few thoughts.

    On getting trousers caught in the shoe, I just don't think there's a way of avoiding this with a fairly slim profile because one walks around. Hems will settle as hems settle, and I wouldn't expect that they always fall cleanly. It might be that a slightly wider hem will help, but you should expect that this will happen. I find my trousers sometimes gets caught in the back! But cuffed trousers that are skimming the top of the shoes should alleviate this issue a bit. I wear mine uncuffed with a touch more break.

    If you want your pants to hit right at a certain part of the shoe, why not take that measurement to figure out how wide your hem needs to be. Hitting the middle of the laces seems a good goal.

    Go to a department store that sports straight fit trousers which will be wider, more likely. See how they drape. Best way is to try some different fits out. Bring a tape measure and then take some measurements (go to a place with different trousers sizes, department store).

    I think that walking back a little from standard "slim" fits will help. There's a nice picture of a person in the HY thread who has the USA fit trousers. He was uncomfortable in their "fullness" but honestly, they looked Vox-like (i.e. like that pic above). If I can find it, I'll post it but you might look in that thread. I think we've sometimes taken "slim" to the wrong extreme.
     


  2. kulata

    kulata Senior member

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    @DonRaphael the question you are asking simply depends on your body type; from your height, girth of your waist, thickness of your thighs and calves down to your shoe size. If I remember correctly, Vox posted a pic in his cycling gear and he has real huge thighs which requires more fullness in the thighs. The pics you posted indicates more tapering between the knees to the ankle, so if that is what you are after then i'd suggest adding between 1 to 1.5 inches to your leg opening measurement for your knee measurement. You have to figure out the best thigh measurement but personally I go between 12 and 13 inches but my thighs aren't huge. Pleats also plays a huge role, you need fuller thighs for pleats.

    I'd suggest you send your best fitting pants to Luxire and interpolate from there.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2014


  3. DonRaphael

    DonRaphael Senior member

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    Thanks for the feedback. I'm aware of the inevitable scenario of the trousers getting caught on the shoes while walking. I just want to avoid it while still having trousers long and wide enough to avoid it as much as possible. As I said before, for now I tend to have a slightly slimmer silhouette and thus a shorter inseam to avoid it. I thought about measuring the width required to have the trousers fall where I'd like them to, thanks for comfirming that. I guess that would be the best approach.

    I think you're referring to to ScottMC:
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    And I agree with you, they look great on him. I would be all over HY pants if they fit like that on me. Unfortunately they don't. I need way more room in the seat. Even when I let out all the cloth in the seat area, they're to tight. And I prefer a higher rise than 10". Preferrably 11,25-11,5" front rise.

    Here's another picture from another member of HY trousers with the same leg opening (8 1/8") that illustrates the problem I've tried to explain:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    The trousers get caught up at the shoes because there isn't enough width at the leg opening, although they're the same as ScottMC's. They're bunching up on the shoes instead of falling nicely, like ScottMC's. This is probably due to a combination of many things, choice of shoes (loafers vs oxfords) and inseam length being two of them.

    Thanks, kulata. Helpful as always. I've come to the conclusion that I need more room in both thighs and at the knees in order to prevent the trousers from getting caught up and thus maintain a straight line. As for sending Luxire a pair of well fitting trousers, I honestly don't feel I have a pair of trousers that I'm satisfied with enough to send to them to replicate. I'm planning on sending them pictures though and ask what can be done on the areas that I'm dissatisfied with before placing the order.

    @Betelgeuse is another member that has impeccable trouser fit. Maybe you can shime in on the matter? What do you opt for/what are your measurements at the thighs, knees and leg opening? I hope you don't mind me borrowing your picture:
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2014


  4. TweedyProf

    TweedyProf Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    That's it! They look great, don't they? For non-bespoke trousers, it is hard to imagine doing much better. The rise looks nice and high on him but not bad even without pleats. The lines are all clean, the legs are straight, full but not swimming-full. The only thing I might change of consequence would be a little more taper just below the seat as the back leg starts down.

    Wish mine looked like that.

    Do you have pics of you in your best fitting trousers?

    Again, I think going to a department store, pulling off several different kinds off the rack will really help you nail down possibilities rather than guessing from pics etc. Take measurements (hell let the sale associate know what you want to do, get them involved in giving you their opinion--someone attractive of course--and they might let you take photos, write down measurements etc.)
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2014


  5. in stitches

    in stitches Kung Joo Moderator

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    That Vox pic is what inspired me to go forward pleat on my next suit.



    Even had suspender buttons put on. Sup @sugarbutch!
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2014


  6. Anden

    Anden Senior member

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    Correct me if I'm wrong but thin legs must be a plus when trying to archive a clean line OTR. I have large thighs and calfs and that is hard to correct for unless going for a fuller cut trouser.
    I love full cut when standing and sitting but prefer a slim trouser when moving.
     


  7. mdancel

    mdancel Well-Known Member

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    Man those are pics of some great looking pants.

    What do you guys feel is an ideal rise? Since we are all built differently I guess this would be best described in relationship to where the pants are in relation to your navel?
     


  8. Murlsquirl

    Murlsquirl The Moral Squirrel Dubiously Honored Moderator

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    They must be because I have thin runners legs and pants are rarely an issue for me.
     


  9. kulata

    kulata Senior member

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    This trousers was made by luxire and it's decent without braces. I gave them the following measurements

    Waist Size: 17.25 - Half Hip Measurement: 23.00 - Hip Measurement Front: 21.25 - Pant Length: 40.25 - Inseam Measurement: 30.75 - Front Rise: 10.75 - Back Rise: 16.50 - Thigh Measurement (2 inch Below Crotch): 13.00 - Knee Measurement: 9.25 - Bottom / Ankle Opening: 8.25 - Custom

    [​IMG]
     


  10. Betelgeuse

    Betelgeuse Senior member

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    No problem, mate!

    Those are Zanella. The thigh on those are 13", at the knee 10" and at the bottom 8.75". I used them for a Luxire and it came out nice. I bulked up and for now they don't fit haha... but the new ones I have are from a tailor and thighs are 14", knee 10" and bottom 9".

    The slight break on my thing is because how I stand.


    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     


  11. ridethecliche

    ridethecliche Senior member

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    Wait... vox is a cyclist? Oy...
     


  12. DonRaphael

    DonRaphael Senior member

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    They're pretty much immaculate given they're OTR. Yes, I'll elaborate on my trousers in a minute. Thanks for your input. Going to a department store trying trousers is not an option at the moment, I'm afraid. But I'll have it in mind.

    It's great, isn't it? I love the one forward pleat look. I just want to burn up all my pants every time I take a look at those pictures.

    Nice! They seem comfortable and the leg opening wide enough to fit a shoe under without the trousers bunching upon it. Looks like we have similar measurements, or at least I try to opt for something like that.

    Wow! I'm amazed every time I see your trouser fit. Perfect! I would've never guessed those are 8,75" at the leg opening.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2014


  13. DonRaphael

    DonRaphael Senior member

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    So, here are some pictures of my trousers I wore today.
    [COLOR=417394][​IMG] [/COLOR]

    [COLOR=417394][​IMG] [/COLOR]

    [COLOR=417394][​IMG] [/COLOR]

    [COLOR=417394][​IMG] [/COLOR]

    [COLOR=417394][​IMG] [/COLOR]

    [COLOR=417394][​IMG] [/COLOR]

    [COLOR=417394][​IMG] [/COLOR]

    [COLOR=417394][​IMG] [/COLOR]
    The measurements are as follows:
    Waist: Didn't measure, but 16,5" maximum if I'm not mistaken.
    Half hip measurement: 21"
    Hip front measurement: -
    Front rise: 10,5"
    Back rise: 17,375"
    Inseam: 30" (I take 30,5" + 1,75" cuff usually, but there isn't enough room in these)
    Thigh: 12,75"
    Knee: 9,25" (at least where I think the knee width is measured)
    Leg opening: 7,875"

    Here is what I want to change:
    Half hip measurement: ?
    Hip front measurement: ?
    Front rise: 11,25" (+0,75")
    Back rise: I'm not sure how much should be added to accommodate for the increase in the front
    Inseam: 31" (+1")
    Thigh: 13" (+0,25") minimum. I don't know how much of the creasing is coming from the lack of width at the hips and how much is affected by the lack of width at the thighs
    Knee: 10" (+0,75" is where I would like to be at to accommodate the increase in thigh and leg opening width. I can see that the trousers are caught up at the backside of the knees also, so increasing the width by 0,75" seems enough.
    Leg opening: The circumference around my shoes at the second pair of lacing counting from down-up is 16". So I guess 8,25" (+0,25") should be enough to cover my shoes down to the second last pair of lacing, but seeing Betel's trousers I would be OK with 8,5" (+0,5") also.

    Problems that aren't addressed above

    Hips:
    I can see and feel that I need more room in the hip area. This is a problem with ALL my trousers. They're always tight around the seat and they tend to cut into the butt crack. I don't know how much I should increase the width at the half hip and at the hip front in order to avoid the pocket flare. Suggestions? I'm also adding a forward pleat to create more room.

    As for the trousers riding up inside the butt cheeks, I think what I should ask for is for the seat to be cut straighter, correct?

    Depending on how much of the creases at the back is coming from the thighs and how much is due the fact that the hips are to tight I'm open to increasing the thighs beyond 13" in order to achieve a harmonious silhouette. As you can see from the pictures taken from the sides, my butt is out there. Maybe I should increase the thigh width beyond 13" to avoid the duck-ass-look?

    Creases below the butt:
    There are slight creases below the butt that I don't know how to avoid. You can see them in the pictures taken from the back. What alterations are required?

    The V from the crotch down
    If you take a look at Vox's, Betel's and ScottMC's pictures in my prior posts you can see that there's a distance between the thighs just below the crotch. In my pictures taken from the front there' isn't such distance between the legs. The trousers are sagging below the crotch instead. How do I clean up that area?

    That's what I could come up with now. I'm sure I've forgotten some things. Your thoughts would be much appreciated, gentlemen. And I'm sorry about the bad quality pictures.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2014


  14. Murlsquirl

    Murlsquirl The Moral Squirrel Dubiously Honored Moderator

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    Don, I would definitely find something that fits better OTR to use a baseline for MTM.
     


  15. DonRaphael

    DonRaphael Senior member

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    Thanks, Murl. I've tried Incotex, PT01, Pakeman, TM Lewin, HY and these are Zegna Milano fit to name a few. While I have tapered my trousers intentionally in the past, I'm planning on not to in the future. But that is not my problem. The elephant in the room (litterarly) is my butt.
    None of the makers named above have had enough room in the seat. Any suggestions?
     


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