Going childless in the U.S.

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Connemara, Dec 3, 2008.

  1. grimslade

    grimslade Senior member

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    I know what comes with parenthood (the good and the bad).


    Um, ignoring all the rest of your anger, you're wrong. Because you aren't one. So you can't know. Some things have to be experienced. Just sayin.
     


  2. Piobaire

    Piobaire Not left of center?

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    Um, ignoring all the rest of your anger, you're wrong. Because you aren't one. So you can't know. Some things have to be experienced. Just sayin.

    That's the type of logic that leads to conclusions such as, men should have no say on abortion laws.
     


  3. rdawson808

    rdawson808 Senior member

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    Um, ignoring all the rest of your anger, you're wrong. Because you aren't one. So you can't know. Some things have to be experienced. Just sayin.

    No I'm not a parent. But I did not say that I know how it feels. I said that I know what comes with parenting. It offers potential benefits and both guaranteed and potential costs. I won't list them; they've been discussed above. I can do the calculation in my head and heart that the costs outweigh the benefits.

    That's my point. Why are so many parents unable to leave alone those of us who choose to be childless? Why not? Why not just leave people be?

    Yes, this thread is specifically about this choice so it must be discussed, but I have never in my life witnessed someone question a parent's choice to have kids. Never. But I constantly see parents question my choice to not have kids. Where does this moral high ground come from?

    And why ignore my anger? Is it not justified? Take the point that many many many parents are very rude people who treat the childless like they are lesser people.

    b
     


  4. SField

    SField Senior member

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    I am 36 yo with three kids (6, 4 and 1) and wish I could have another. I love being with my kids and would rather be with them than anywhere else 99% of the time. We have the best nanny (live-in) in the world so that makes our lives much easier since both my wife and I work full-time.

    I understand and respect those couples who don't want kids. I guess they don't know what they're missing. It's hard to explain how things in life take on a different meaning when you hang out with these little people that are like a part of you.


    Can i ask you, what does your nanny do, and what do you do? How do you separate the work/personal relationship? When does she know to kind of... fuck off, and when to come back to wipe up some mess your kid made?
     


  5. Piobaire

    Piobaire Not left of center?

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    No I'm not a parent. But I did not say that I know how it feels. I said that I know what comes with parenting. It offers potential benefits and both guaranteed and potential costs. I won't list them; they've been discussed above. I can do the calculation in my head and heart that the costs outweigh the benefits.

    That's my point. Why are so many parents unable to leave alone those of us who choose to be childless? Why not? Why not just leave people be?

    Yes, this thread is specifically about this choice so it must be discussed, but I have never in my life witnessed someone question a parent's choice to have kids. Never. But I constantly see parents question my choice to not have kids. Where does this moral high ground come from?

    And why ignore my anger? Is it not justified? Take the point that many many many parents are very rude people who treat the childless like they are lesser people.

    b


    I'm not angry. Well, not over what EL72 said anyways. But I do question some parent's choice to have kids and I do get angry when they expect the tax payers to support them. If you can't afford to raise a kid, by what right do you think you should be having them for the tax payers to pay for?

    But that's another topic.
     


  6. grimslade

    grimslade Senior member

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    That's the type of logic that leads to conclusions such as, men should have no say on abortion laws.

    No, because I'm not advocating any laws, nor am I infringing anyone's rights. That's silliness. If I accepted that abortion was all about how a woman feels, I would be unflinchingly pro-choice already. Surely you can see that.

    I can do the calculation in my head and heart that the costs outweigh the benefits.

    It's the parts that you can't calculate that you can't know without being one. That's all.

    That's my point. Why are so many parents unable to leave alone those of us who choose to be childless? Why not? Why not just leave people be?

    I didn't start this discussion. But it sounds like you have a lot of subconscious regret about this subject. Or at least pent up frustration. Sorry.

    And why ignore my anger? Is it not justified? Take the point that many many many parents are very rude people who treat the childless like they are lesser people.

    b



    Because EL72's post wasn't my post, and you weren't speaking to me, because I'm not the person you so angrily describe. So I have no reason to take umbrage at it.
     


  7. redcaimen

    redcaimen Bigtime

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    I'm not angry. Well, not over what EL72 said anyways. But I do question some parent's choice to have kids and I do get angry when they expect the tax payers to support them. If you can't afford to raise a kid, by what right do you think you should be having them for the tax payers to pay for?

    But that's another topic.


    I see your point, but in societies such as ours with ponzi scheme entitlement structures need to encourage a broad base to the pyramid. You can pay now or you can pay later.
     


  8. Connemara

    Connemara [URL='http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jST2Sv63WQ']

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    I have an aversion to messy people and messy things. Thus, I wouldn't do well with kids.
     


  9. grimslade

    grimslade Senior member

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    I have an aversion to messy people and messy things. Thus, I wouldn't do well with kids.

    Or you would learn to be more tolerant of other's shortcomings as a result.
     


  10. Connemara

    Connemara [URL='http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jST2Sv63WQ']

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    Or you would learn to be more tolerant of other's shortcomings as a result.
    I prefer my irrational phobia.
     


  11. grimslade

    grimslade Senior member

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    I prefer my irrational phobia.

    Of course you do. We all do, or we wouldn't have them.
     


  12. dkzzzz

    dkzzzz Senior member

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    I am 36 yo with three kids (6, 4 and 1) and wish I could have another. I love being with my kids and would rather be with them than anywhere else 99% of the time. We have the best nanny (live-in) in the world so that makes our lives much easier since both my wife and I work full-time.

    I understand and respect those couples who don't want kids. I guess they don't know what they're missing. It's hard to explain how things in life take on a different meaning when you hang out with these little people that are like a part of you.


    That is subcontious quest for immortality every living being attempts. Now, we are given contiousness to realise that our attempts are futile.
    I'd love to have kids but not at a cost of my own short life.
     


  13. Piobaire

    Piobaire Not left of center?

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    No, because I'm not advocating any laws, nor am I infringing anyone's rights. That's silliness. If I accepted that abortion was all about how a woman feels, I would be unflinchingly pro-choice already. Surely you can see that.

    Then you can see it is also silly to invalidate the concept that those without kids have no idea what it is they are missing. Intellectual beings have the ability to concieve of things outside the realm of experience. It might be a total replacement for experience, but it certainly does not leave one in the total dearth of knowledge.
     


  14. Connemara

    Connemara [URL='http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jST2Sv63WQ']

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    Of course you do. We all do, or we wouldn't have them.
    Yeah. There have been times when I've come across children in a grocery store or mall, clothes stained with whatever condiment dripped out of their Quarter Pounder and smears of chocolate on their face. I want to punch their parents in the face and tell them to pay some fucking attention and make their children presentable. Ugh, kids with stains on their clothes make me feel physically ill, I cannot be around them. I also hate brats who are always in sweatpants and a stupid t-shirt. If I was forced to have a child I would clothe him/her in Brooks Brothers. [​IMG]
     


  15. Thomas

    Thomas Senior member

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    I'm not angry. Well, not over what EL72 said anyways. But I do question some parent's choice to have kids and I do get angry when they expect the tax payers to support them. If you can't afford to raise a kid, by what right do you think you should be having them for the tax payers to pay for?

    But that's another topic.


    Bolded and quoted for TRUTH. Seriously, I've met a bunch of people - some relatives - and I think, Good God you're the last person who should be raising a child. WTF are you doing popping another one out?!?

    Likewise the dysfunctional relatioships where they decide that having a child can salvage the relationship. WTF^2.

    In defense of Grimslade...I thought I knew parenthood before taking in the XC student. Then we hosted the student. And then I thought I knew parenthood. Now we have a little one in the house, and I'm still learning what I thought I already knew. Not to minimize others' experiences, but relating my own.
     


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